The Root Cause of Low Energy & How to Fix It

Nick Urban [00:00:07]:
Are you a high performer obsessed with growth and looking for an edge? Welcome to MINDBODY Peak Performance. Together, we’ll discover underground secrets to unlocking the full potential of your mind, body, and spirit. We’ll learn from some of the world’s leading minds, from ancient wisdom to cutting edge tools and everything in between. This is your host, Nick Urban. Enjoy the episode. Perhaps you have some health condition, or your energy is just a little bit low. If you think back to high school biology, you may have heard of a certain kind of organelle called the mitochondria, aka the powerhouse of the cell. When that component within cells has issues, it can manifest in a bunch of different ways.

Nick Urban [00:01:01]:
And in this episode, we discuss everything you should know about that organelle, how the mitochondria are much more than just power plants, the potential consequences of biological energy shortages, of mitochondria not doing their job adequately, the other response that they can have when the conditions are not optimal so that they protect you from what they perceive to be stressors or threats. That’s right. In many ways, mitochondria are environmental sensors. And when you’re under threat, they activate what’s called the cell danger response. But before you rush off to optimize your mitochondria, you’ll wanna follow a specific order of operations. Otherwise, you may be overriding the body’s protective mechanisms, which may cause more harm than good. We discuss another part of the cell that’s rarely discussed called peroxisomes. We talk about the role of the immune system.

Nick Urban [00:02:09]:
We cover the topics of stealth infections, pathogenic reactivation, and the consequences mold exposure can have on your mitochondria and overall health. We touch on the bioenergetic paradigm of producing insufficient cellular biosynergy, and we talk about some of the flashier mitochondrial biohacks such as bioregulators and what’s known as Brown’s gas, which is basically just an upgraded form of molecular hydrogen. Joining us on the podcast this week is doctor Tim Jackson. He’s a doctor of physical therapy and orthopedic rehabilitation. He’s a functional medicine provider with a bachelor’s of science in health science and chemistry from Wake Forest University. He serves clients in over 15 countries through his telehealth practice and has helped 1,000 over the past 8 years. He’s been featured in all of the major biohacking podcasts, media outlets, health summits, and even a documentary. Of the many health related topics, he specializes in digestive health, energy, autoimmune disorders, mold toxicity, and the main topic of this podcast, mitochondria.

Nick Urban [00:03:31]:
The show notes for everything we discussed today will be at mindbodypeak.com/the Peak 162. And if you want to learn a little bit more about optimizing your mitochondria, I will include a link to an article I wrote on exactly that. So check out the show notes to connect with our guests this week or to expand your knowledge on improving one of the core factors of building lifelong sustainable health. Okay. Enjoy this conversation with doctor Tim Jackson. Doctor Tim, welcome to the podcast.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:04:06]:
Thanks so much for having me, Nick. I really appreciate it.

Nick Urban [00:04:09]:
Today, we’re gonna dive into a number of different fascinating topics. But before we get started, let’s begin with your URBAN unusual nonnegotiables you’ve done so far today for your health, your performance, and your bioharmony.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:04:24]:
Yes. So first thing this morning, well, when I got up, it was right at 6 AM, just before 6 AM. There was no sunlight out yet, so I kept my blue blockers on. Then about 30 minutes later, sunlight came out. So I went out, got 30 minutes roughly of morning sunlight to help him train my circadian rhythm and increase my dopamine levels for the day. Then as I was working this morning on my computer, I hooked myself up to my molecular hydrogen machine and breathed in the gas, which helps with mitochondrial health as you know, and it’s anti inflammatory. And so far, that’s all I’ve done for my health today. You know, other days, I mean, I have a red light therapy device I use 5 to 6 times a week, a sauna upstairs, vibration plate, aluminum photon machine, and I kinda mix and match depending on what my goals are.

Nick Urban [00:05:20]:
That’s awesome. I didn’t realize that you also have a molecular hydrogen device. I’ve recorded several podcasts on that. It’s a really fascinating therapeutic. Do you notice much difference from from using it?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:05:30]:
Yeah. So I had another one, but then this one is the AquaTURE. It’s the brand gas.

Nick Urban [00:05:37]:
I have one right right below me.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:05:38]:
Yeah. And so, you know, it they have the goggles. I haven’t used those yet to improve my eyesight, but I breathe the gas. I drink the water, but I probably breathe the gas more because it’s just more convenient. And, yeah, I my lifts have gone up in the gym. It helps me with recovery. You know, I noticed better cognition even CHEK, it’s not optimal to have less than 8 hours of sleep. But on days that I do, I noticed that I don’t really miss a beat if I’m using the molecular.

Nick Urban [00:06:10]:
Yeah. I’m a big fan of those therapies and substances you can use to help offset some of the detrimental effects of sleep deprivation because it’s inevitable that some days we won’t get quite as much sleep as we want. And, yeah, I when I was traveling, didn’t have access to the AquaCure. And now that I’m back, it’s really nice. I Mind that it’s a it’s a good pick me up too if I use it in the afternoon for some steady energy without the crash.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:06:33]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, it’s so small that molecular hydrogen gets into the mitochondria, and I think that’s what makes it so unique.

Nick Urban [00:06:41]:
Yeah. Mind, again, I’ve recorded several Podcast with George Wiseman, the founder of inventor of AquaCure, and one with Alex Tavarna from, drink h r r HRW on molecular hydrogen. So those resources I’ll put in the show notes. But you’ve mentioned mitochondria several times already. We’ll talk a lot about that today because it’s a very important nootropics, and most people have probably not heard that term since high school biology class where it’s called the powerhouse of the cell. Can you break down what exactly are mitochondria and why do they matter?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:07:17]:
Yeah. So, you know, like you said, in high school biology, middle school biology, we get taught they’re the powerhouse of the cell. Even in my 1st undergrad biology class, I think they were referred to as that. But then you, you know, you go further and further into cell and molecular biology and you realize there’s a whole lot more to them. Looking back, if they would have taught me, like, okay. You can use these things to improve the mitochondria, I would have been much more likely to study. I mean, I did Mind, but, you know, I think more people would take an interest if they knew that they could use these tools and these concepts to improve their life. But, operationally Mind the mitochondria, they are the batteries of the cells.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:07:54]:
They produce the energy currency of the cells. But when you look at every disease known to man, one of the things they all have in common is mitochondrial dysfunction. But one of the other more important well, equally important roles of the mitochondria is to send out danger signals. And so when the cell is under threats, whether it’s from a virus or a bacteria or a high environmental toxin load or even psychological stress, it activates something called the cell danger response. And so basically, if your mitochondria is here, it can go down this route, and that’s gonna produce Peak. Or it can go down this route where it’s sending out dangerous signals. And so a lot of the EMS, we think, you know, we need to boost the the mitochondria, and and some degree we do, but we need to find out why it’s not producing energy. And so we gotta work on removing the threats, whether it’s psychological stress, you know, perceived stress, physiological stress, non native EMFs, Wi Fi, 5 g, things like that can all activate the cell danger response.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:09:00]:
And so it it’s a sensing mechanism to to Mind determine what’s going on in the environment, as well as producing energy. But, you know, I’d tell people if you wanna be smarter, work on your mitochondria. You wanna run faster, work on your mitochondria. You wanna lift more weights, work on your mitochondria. You wanna have better sleep, work on your mitochondria.

Nick Urban [00:09:22]:
The way I like to think of it is, like, the mitochondria are like a nuclear energy plant. And if you’re creating energy, that’s great. You’re powering up all the different bodily systems and functions. And if there’s a threat, any threat, then when you activate the cell danger response, it’s like saying, well, it’s more important that we survive, so we’re gonna shut down production or reduce production at this nuclear energy plant so that everything stays okay. And, yes, it’s gonna cause an expensive lack of power. And in the body’s case, when there’s a lack of power to different organ systems, they don’t perform as well. And you might notice depending on your genetics, your constitution, your epigenetics, a bunch of different factors, you’ll see different symptoms as a result, whether it’s migraines, whether it’s muscle weakness, it’s brain fog, it’s rapid aging. So those are all, like, stemming from the same issue potentially, although the symptoms present differently.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:10:17]:
Yeah. So, typically, the first place you’ll notice mitochondrial dysfunction is in the brain and central nervous system. So the brain has between 9 10% of the body’s mitochondria, but it utilizes between 20 24% of the body’s oxygen that we breathe in. So you have basically a small number of mitochondria consuming a large amount of energy. So when there’s dysfunction, you’ll it can be something as simple as brain fog or maybe some memory issues or maybe you’re not processing information as quickly. But the other organs that are very mitochondrally dense, heart, and the gut and liver. And so the heart, you know, a lot of times, you know, we think congestive heart failure, oh, well, you know, they’re gonna die. Like, there’s really nothing you can do.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:11:05]:
But things like code q 10, testosterone, growth hormone, taurine, they all improve cardiac output, which is the number of liters of blood Health prompts per minute, and it should be 5 liters per minute. And so, Peak typically think, testosterone if someone’s on testosterone replacement therapy, they’re damaging their heart, but it’s actually the opposite, because you’re improving cardiac output. And, testosterone EMS also responsible for something called reverse cholesterol transport. So it picks cholesterol up from the arteries and takes it back to the liver to be processed.

Nick Urban [00:11:42]:
It sounds like there’s a whole perspective called the bioenergetic perspective, and it places the mitochondria and energy production at the forefront. And that’s why we also heard in recent times, especially in Podcast and other interviews, just how important they are.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:11:59]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, so it all speaks to sort of this metabolic theory. You know, pretty much every disorder has a metabolic component. So if you’re metabolically healthy, your chances of any disorder or disease goes down significantly. And so, you know, the more we’re producing energy, you know, obviously, there’s a strong connection between thyroid hormone and mitochondrial health. So you have t 4 inactive thyroid hormone, t 3, the more active form, and then we have a small amount of t 2 that gets directly into the mitochondria. And so when we talk about autophagy, which is cellular cleansing and, you know, basically housekeeping, so to Peak, that is controlled, largely by your free t three, your free active thyroid hormone levels.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:12:49]:
And so a lot of times as we age, thyroid hormone our levels start to decline. Turns out the cells in the thyroid are very sensitive to oxidative stress, and so, you you almost never see a thyroid issue without also seeing an adrenal gland issue. Mind so you can have really high cortisol or really low cortisol, and that will drag the thyroid down with it. And so if you’ve probably heard of people who are prescribed thyroid medication Mind they take it and they get heart palpitations, It’s not that they don’t need it. It’s just that you’ve got to look at the entire picture. If someone’s cortisol is low, that’s the body’s way of saying, woah. We can’t handle this metabolic rate right now.

Nick Urban [00:13:34]:
Yeah. Or high too. Yeah. Or high. Exactly. Have you heard of peroxisomes? What’s the relationship between them and mitochondria? Because I’ve been reading about the synergy or how they’re coorganelles, and they work together. And by manipulating peroxisomes specifically, it’s like the the lower hanging fruit to get bigger return on your mitochondrial improving efforts.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:14:01]:
Yeah. So there’s a lot of things that happen prior to mitochondrial dysfunction. Endoplasmic reticulum stress is one of them, but you have the peroxisome. So there’s other organelles. The issue becomes the technology is not readily available outside of a few select, you know, research centers here and there. But I think in general, you know, if you can do the basics for all the organelles. So on my podcast, I interviewed, doctor Dan Goodenow, with the prodrome plasmodium company, and, you know, he says that the plasmodium deficiencies, are really what’s causing the organelle dysfunction, and they’re incorporated into all the membranes, not just the cellular membrane, but the nuclear membrane, the mitochondrial membrane. And so it affects all the organelles.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:14:53]:
And so replenishing those plasmologens is one of the things. I I haven’t started taking them yet, but I’m gonna order some.

Nick Urban [00:15:00]:
Well, you define what they are?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:15:01]:
Oh, yes. Sorry. So plasmodogens, it has an alkylglycerol, backbone, and then it either has an omega 3 fatty acid or an omega 9 fatty acid. And so they’re all throughout the body. They’re made by the swan cells and the oligodendrocytes, which are 2 types of cells in the nervous system. They make the myelin, and, the plasmodogens impact the white matter in the central nervous system. And so neurological disorders play a role with plasmodogens, so does autism, cancer, MS, heart disease even, and it all gets back to, you know, what we’re looking at from the 30,000 foot view is ultimately happening at the cellular level, but then after that, the organelle level.

Nick Urban [00:15:52]:
And what I read is that by stimulating the cellular cleanup process of autophagy and then fasting for a bit Mind then adding in omega 3 fatty acids specifically. And I think taro still beans another one. You can improve the recycling process that occurs within the peroxisomes. I think it’s called Peak pixophagy? Peak. PIXOVAGY. And that is supposed to also help with the mitochondrial recycling process.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:16:23]:
Yeah. And so, you know, a lot of people are into intermittent fasting, and that’s great. The only thing I would say is you have to work on your metabolic flexibility, which is so I’ll define that. Your ability to switch between substrates. So, you know, when glucose is not available, can you use fatty acids? Things like that? And a lot of EMS, people will jump to intermittent fasting, but it’s a hermetic stressor like sauna, like red light therapy. But your body, if it has a high allostatic load, which is the total number of stressors Nick externally and internally on the body, then you may not benefit as much as you’re expecting from intermittent fasting.

Nick Urban [00:17:07]:
So what you’re saying is that if you’re very stressed out and then you add intermittent fasting on top of that, then you might actually have more downsides and detrimental effects than you do benefits.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:17:16]:
Yeah. It’s just like going to the gym and working out. Like, I hear people say all the time, well, I had a stressful day today, so I’m gonna go crush it in the gym. But you actually wanna dial down the volume on the date you’re really stressed because you wanna create the same metabolic stimulus, but the volume is what determines whether it’s a true stressor or not Mind whether you can adapt. And so, yeah, you know, it’s just all about context and looking at the person’s lifestyle, their environment, their social connections, their nutrition, internal stressors, all those things because what might be overtraining to me may not be overtraining to you and vice versa.

Nick Urban [00:17:58]:
Let’s go back to mitochondria, and I wanna talk more about how you know if your mitochondria are optimal, any signs or symptoms, Mind, like, to make sure that we’re not going down that route of the cell danger response. Because as you mentioned earlier, the very first thing you do before you’re trying to boost the mitochondria, their function, and their output Mind everything is to make sure that when you add more fuel, it’s going down the right pathway instead of going down the danger response where it’s, like, almost like an emergency valve where the steam is escaping.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:18:31]:
Well, there’s a number of variables that are stressors that can activate the cell danger response. Lyme disease, the coinfections, mold toxicity, high viral code, and a lot of people listening, they may think, well, I’m not running a fever Urban I don’t have a cough. Those are very acute saves. But a lot of EMS, I haven’t yet to test someone, excuse me, who didn’t have at least 2 or 3 pathogens that were active, because of the environment we live in, the chemical exposures, the nominated EMFs, you know, the stress level. And so, the pathogens, if we can decrease the pathogen load and decrease the toxicity level, the body and the mitochondria specifically are less likely to be in the cell danger response. So if you wanna test I mean, as far as I know, there’s no direct test, but an indirect test, extracellular ATP. So the ATP, the energy currency, the cell, we want that to be in the cell. Right? And so when it’s outside the cell in the plasma, then that’s indicative of the cell danger response.

Nick Urban [00:19:43]:
Is that a blood test you can get?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:19:45]:
Yeah. Not a very common one. You don’t hear about it much, but, last time I checked, which was a few months ago, it was available from Performance I think Quest as well.

Nick Urban [00:19:53]:
So the first thing to do is to test to make sure you don’t have a bunch of ATP in the extracellular fluid. Where do you go from that? Are there a lot of false positives or false negatives?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:20:04]:
So with that, I don’t think so. I mean, I I think there’s some, like, with any test, but I don’t think it’s, you know, off the charts or anything. But in terms of rehabilitating the mitochondria, a lot of people just try to, you know, put more and more fuel or AKA substrates into the body, and that’s part of it. But we also wanna repair those, mitochondrial membranes Mind the cell membranes. So the, you know, plasma or cell membrane, we wanna use things like phosphatidylcholine, omega 3 fatty acids. And then for the mitochondrial membrane, we can use and the cell membrane, plasmodogens, which we just referenced, and, EMS factor energy, which is a phospholipid complex. Doctor Garth Nicholson is based off of his work. And so a lot of toxins, especially some from peptides will lodge in that mitochondrial membrane.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:21:00]:
Things like nt Practitioner Health to Mind displace it and make the membrane healthy again. So part of it is a structural rehabilitation process just like remodeling your house, so to Peak. And then you can provide the fuel and substrates like coenzyme 10, l carnitine, oxaloacetate, NAD plus, and then protecting it. So the a really important point for the listeners and viewers, the mitochondrial DNA, it’s not protected by those big round proteins we call histones. So our nuclear DNA is protected, from oxidative stress to a degree by those histones. The mitochondrial DNA does not have those proteins, so it’s much more susceptible to oxidative stress. And so the 2 main guardians, of the mitochondria, glutathione Mind superoxide dismutase.

Nick Urban [00:21:56]:
What about melatonin?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:21:58]:
Melatonin is an important one as well. You know, I interviewed John Lawrence, and, you know, he’s big on the melatonin suppositories. And, doctor Guiana Minnick, she and some colleagues posted a or published a paper, I think, 8 or 9 months ago on, mitochondrial melatonin production. And so, you know, a lot of it’s produced there, but that gets into sort of your light environment. Right? So, I mean, I’m okay with supplementing with melatonin, but you also there’s no getting away from the need for, natural sunlight. Right? Like, that’s a nonnegotiable. But, you know, to rehab the mitochondria, we’ve got the structural component. We’ve got the substrate component, and then we got the antioxidant slash Body.

Nick Urban [00:22:47]:
And for the structural component, it probably also is gonna be important to make sure that you’re getting the right fats that your body is going to use to produce the membranes.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:22:58]:
Absolutely. So, you know, you need a balance of omega threes, omega Nick. There’s a new fatty acid. So I was interviewing someone the other day, and she taught me about, c 15, fatty 15, which I I haven’t taken yet. I was just reading about it this morning. But, you know, that’s supposed to be even better than omega threes, but I take a high DHA, fish oil because DHA can be converted into EPA, but the reverse isn’t true. So EPA cannot be converted into DHA. And so when people say, you know, EPA is for systemic issues and DHA is for brain health, it’s a little misleading.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:23:39]:
It’s not quite that simple. But the omega threes Mind, you know, important point here is that a lot of times if you’re taking high quality omega 3 and you’re not noticing benefits, you’re likely not digesting, absorbing, and assimilating your fats. And that’s where using things like ox bile or tadka and digestive enzymes with lipase in it. That way, you can break down the fatty acids, and they can go to wherever they’re needed most and be incorporated into those membranes. And so that speaks to the larger issue of cellular communication. So if I have a cell here Mind it’s really healthy and a cell here that’s really healthy, but they can’t communicate, then, you know, I’m in trouble. And so, you know, they’re saying no man’s an island. No cell is an island either.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:24:28]:
So they gotta be able to talk to each other Mind, you know, like, the Health danger response, warn each other of dangerous signals. Fuel is scarce in in the environment, you know, so it can down regulate energy production. But, yeah, those fatty acids, they’re all important, phosphatidylcholine. So without phosphatidylcholine, we can’t make bile. Without bile, we can’t detoxify. There’s a polymorphism, MTHFD1, where, we don’t make as much phosphorylcholine as we probably should, and so taking it orally is a good idea. There’s a protocol called the Patricia Kane protocol, which we used to do in one of the clinics I worked at with IV therapy that you can also do it orally, and it basically rehabilitates the cell membranes using a blend of fatty acids, phosphine, butyrates, and it gets rid of these lipid rafts that, you know, when you change the structure of a fatty acid or protein, it changes the function functionality. And so, that’s what that whole protocol is based URBAN.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:25:40]:
And, you can do it IV with IV therapy or orally. But, yeah, the fatty acids, they’re incredibly important.

Nick Urban [00:25:48]:
Yeah. And I think the whole trend that, bioenergetic community has been talking about for a while about odd chain lipids, like c 15, for example, fatty 15. Those are only gonna become more and more important because it seems that they have a lot of the benefits of the omegas and the fatty acids, whereas omega Nick is essential, but we already get plenty of that in the way it’s produced and manufactured Mind the chemicals that are added to it make it so that by the time it reaches us, it’s oxidized, and when it’s used to, build, manufacture cell membranes Mind Performance membranes, like cardiolipin in the mitochondria, it can set the stage for some pretty disastrous health consequences when it’s consumed Mind 2 larger quantities.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:26:32]:
Absolutely. And, you know, vitamin e is very important for preventing those fats from becoming oxidized. And so, you know, I would recommend taking, omega 3 or fatty s supplement with vitamin e or taking them separately, to prevent that oxidation of those lipids Mind then, you know, decrease your overall stress, your oxidative stress, so that there’s less likelihood that they will be oxidized?

Nick Urban [00:26:57]:
Yeah. Okay. So membrane health is very important Mind first determining where, like, the status of your mitochondria, if they’re working optimally, and if you’re having problems with energy and symptoms Mind the organs you mentioned previously, that’s probably a sign that perhaps you wanna get that blood test and make sure, but you might as well focus on providing, like, those safety signals. Then after you do that, work on the membranes, then what?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:27:25]:
Yeah. So, you know, the cell membranes Mind then using things like a fulvic, Nick acid blend, to help get nutrients into the cell and toxins out. And so, you know, a lot of us a lot of people are drinking half their body weight in ounces of water. But if you’re not adding electrolytes to it, you can actually dehydrate yourself more. And I get a lot of pushback on that, but, you know, it’s just science. It’s chemistry. I’m a chemistry and biology geek. So electrolytes, they’re not sexy like hormones or mitochondria, but they’re so important.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:28:02]:
You know, your body keeps them within a very narrow range. And what I would say to listeners, you know, if you’ve had blood mark and you see your potassium’s within normal limits, that’s what’s in the blood. Potassium is mostly inside the cell. So you can do a test through Lab Core is called RBC red blood cell potassium to give you an idea, but we really have an epidemic of potassium deficiency. All the electrolytes, but potassium and magnesium in particular. And if you’re already supplementing with magnesium, make sure you add in potassium because they work very closely together.

Nick Urban [00:28:37]:
Yeah. And at the very least, just get in ample nutritional sources of potassium. I knew Mind I saves done the red blood cell magnesium blood test, RBC mag mag test, but didn’t realize there was one for potassium also.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:28:50]:
Yeah. So the one for magnesium, you want to be roughly 6.1 or URBAN. And then potassium, I forget what the optimal range or even normal range is for that because I haven’t done it in a while. But, most people, if you’re taking, you know, 500 milligrams of potassium 3 times a day, then, yeah, that could create cardiac problems. But if you’re taking 99 milligrams, assuming you’re not on any medications that are altering your potassium levels, then taking something like 99 milligrams 2 to 3 times a day is only gonna help you.

Nick Urban [00:29:25]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I think the order of operations of, say, using electrolytes and or humic fulvic acid sources such as Shilajit, that’s my favorite. Those those those can go at the very beginning of the protocol. You don’t if whether or not you have you’re in cell danger response, you can still use those. Right?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:29:44]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And so that’s a great point. You know, we hear about this supplement, this nutrient, dihydroberine. Like, they’re all important, you know, depending on what your goals are and what your current situation is. But I would say if I had to make a sweeping generalization, electrolytes and a fulvic humid blend for everyone, I mean, you’re they’re gonna increase energy production. They’re gonna help toxins get out, and nutrients get in. And so, yeah, you can’t go wrong using those 2.

Nick Urban [00:30:18]:
And then after you get you do that, then do you go to the usual, like, mitochondrial enhancing techniques and Biohacking, or are there other steps in between those?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:30:27]:
So, typically so, like, if you came to me and you just had, let’s say, like, 3 chief complaints, fatigue, brain fog, and maybe joint pain, you know, of course, I’m gonna look at the gut, because let’s I’ll give you an example of gram negative bacteria. They can release something called lipopolysaccharides into the bloodstream, and they’re incredibly inflammatory. In fact, the labs that do testing on inflammatory cytokines, what they use in cell cultures to stimulate those cytokines is lipopolysaccharides. And so when they’re released into the bloodstream, it leads to something called metabolic endotoxemia. And so, basically, you’re being poisoned from within. And what that does is that overwhelms the liver phase 1, phase 2, phase 3 detox pathways. So, you know, someone’s only having one bowel movement in their day or no bowel movements a day and only going once every 2 to 3 days, then we start by getting new bowels moving. And once we have that, then we add in something like electrolytes Mind the folicumic complex because that’s gonna help detox even more and also increase energy production.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:31:39]:
So, you know, everything we do, especially detox and sleep, are very energy dependent and very energy demanding. And so, a lot of people can’t heal or can’t detox because they don’t have enough energy. So we’re Mind killing a few birds with 1 stone by using the electrolytes and the humit fulvic complex. And so I would start by, you know, addressing the guts. And then depending on, you know, what your other test results show, I would say let’s say you have elevated mycotoxins. We would work on, you know, getting those out, but one of the most important parts of detoxing mycotoxins is rehabbing the cell membranes, balancing electrolytes because mold and mycotoxins block a hormone called antidiuretic hormone. And that hormone is the same one that coffee blocks, and that’s why it makes you pee. And so if you’re already electrolyte deficient and then you have something like mold toxicity, you can become hypovolemic.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:32:39]:
So, you know, that’s not good. But supplementing with the electrolytes, humipolytic complex is a good next step. And, you know, from there, I would say working on your environment as well. And depending on the person, I may move the steps around a little bit. But, you know, morning sunlight, obviously, that’s something that’s gonna benefit everyone no matter what your goal or objective is and, optimizing the gut and then the lymphatic system, getting that going. And so, you know, the heart and the circulatory system gets all the worry, but the lymphatic system is incredibly incredibly important, and it’s very dependent on movement. So it requires muscular contractions. So I have a CHEK machine upstairs and a vibration plate over there, to help get things moving.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:33:31]:
But it’s like having your garbage disposal clogged, and then you just continue to put stuff in it. And so we don’t wanna try and mobilize toxins or kill too many pathogens if your drainage pathways are clogged. And so, you know, opening up the lymphatic system and then gently supporting the liver phase 1, phase 2, phase 3, because ultimately, the lymphatic system is gonna dump into the liver. And so if the liver is congested, then that you you’re just, you know, circling back and detoxifying yourself. And so, you know, from there, I would say, we look at stealth pathogens, typically, and your immune response. So, if you have a high pathogen load, that’s gonna create a lot of inflammation, and oxidative stress that damages the mitochondria. So if we can bring that load down even a little bit, it allows your body to Mind take care of the pathogens on its own. But today, you know, we’re bombarded with, you know, emails, text messages, TV, streaming this, streaming that, record this, record that, on top of, you know, the amount of information we consume, you know, especially if you’re like you and I constantly reading science medical related CHEK, then, it’s stressful to the nervous system.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:35:01]:
We have to try to keep that in mind, because I tell people what you put in your mouth, yes, that’s obviously very important. But what you put in your nervous system, it’s kinda like your cells were eavesdropping on everything that you say and everything you put into your nervous system. And so, like, I have a colleague. He one of the channels on Pluto, but it’s just like positive animal videos, like Urban, comical animal videos. And so in his IV therapy room, he has just that. He doesn’t allow anyone to watch the news or anything because that’s gonna undo like, if your cortisol goes way up, that’s gonna undo some of the benefits of the IV. And, you know, so, yeah, the news, like, probably the best thing you can do is to stop watching the news. You know, it it’s just nothing positive and half truth.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:35:52]:
I would just encourage people to do their own research. Paul CHEK, I heard him say, like, 15 years ago that if you can walk 10 feet without someone telling you something, you didn’t really need to know it. You know? So, like, if I go outside and my neighbor, they’re, you know, packing up the car, throwing everything in the car to go out of town, I’m like, wait. Where are you going? She’s like, oh, there’s a hurricane coming. We gotta evacuate. So see, I just found out. I don’t need to watch it.

Nick Urban [00:36:19]:
Absolutely. And it’s interesting to think about the link between psychology and physiology, and people often say that there’s not much Nick, and it seems ludicrous to me because you can just imagine all it takes is a thought to increase and modulate a whole cascade of hormones throughout your entire body. For example, if I go to if I’m thinking about going to the doctors Mind I’m deathly afraid of needles, By the time I get there and I’m actually getting my blood work done, my cortisol is gonna be sky high simply because of my thoughts that I’ve been thinking over and over again Mind up until from from when I woke up until I got to the office.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:36:58]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, every thought has a physiological consequence. And, you know, we basically have these Code. Well, I’m dating myself, but back in the day, we had Code. And even before that, we saves cassette tapes. But, you know, we have these tapes or CDs playing in our heads, and, you know, that’s the theater of the mom. Doctor Maxwell Maltz, He’s no longer with us, but he wrote a good book, Psycho Cybernetics.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:37:24]:
And what he found was, yes. You know, it’s where but his patients where he thought, like, they were gonna be over the Nick, excited with their results, but often come in and they were Mind of depressed. What’s wrong? What you know, did something not go right? Well, I thought my results would be better, and he’s looking at them like, you know, this is, like, my best work. But in their mind’s eye, you know, they still saw themselves as unattractive for whatever reason. So it just goes to show you, you know, your thoughts. In it. James Allen has a man thinketh is another good book. So, you know, what you focus on does expand.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:37:58]:
It’s not hocus pocus. I took a good course one time called physiological psychology, and, it it was really good, you know, to Mind tie, hardcore science in with, the software sciences, so to speak.

Nick Urban [00:38:13]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And the whole idea and concept of mindset, people tend to gloss over because it’s pretty boring to think that I’m constantly changing and updating my physiology based on the thoughts I’m having. But when you realize that each thought makes a difference, you’re either working towards moving to a better place or you’re holding yourself back and adding a bunch of biological friction to your life simply by the thoughts you’re having, and they are completely malleable too.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:38:43]:
Absolutely. And, you know, like you said, the physiology and the psychology are closely intertwined. And, you know, if your physiology is often so this is where I have issues with cognitive behavioral therapy because people will go I I took, I think, 11 total psychology courses. I was close to getting my doctorate in clinical psychology, but this is where I kinda got a beef with, clinical psychology. Not all of them. They’re they’re really good ones. But, you know, if you come to me and you say I’m depressed, okay, what makes you feel that way? I don’t know. Okay.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:39:17]:
Well, it’s $250. I’ll see you next week. And then, you know, you go home and you’re feeling bad about yourself. Right? And a lot of inflammatory cytokines, stealth pathogens, neurotrophic viruses that like to live in the myelin sheath, heavy metal toxicity, gut dysbiosis. All those things play with hormonal balance, blood sugar balance, thyroid levels. You can have the best cognitive behavioral therapist on the planet. But if you’re loaded with toxins and have mitochondrial dysfunction, I mean, you’ve probably seen the work of doctor Chris Palmer, an MD from Harvard, you know, on the bioenergetics of the brain. And, I’m surprised they haven’t fired the guy yet because, you know, he’s, you know, turning psychiatry upside down.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:40:04]:
And but the I mean, every you can’t say he’s wrong. I mean, everything is based on research. But, yeah, the bioenergetics is so incredibly important Mind, you know, to try and separate the physiology from the psychology. I mean, it goes both ways. So my psychology, if I’m really negative, can negatively impact my physiology, but my physiology is gonna also impact my psychology.

Nick Urban [00:40:27]:
Exactly. So you’ve mentioned infections and stealth infections several times, and those are very important and top of mind to me because I just come back from India. I had some blood work done over there, and I saw several markers that were out of range to an extent that I’m now working on addressing some of these. I’m curious how you go about identifying infections and specifically the stealth ones that otherwise would go undetected?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:40:54]:
I have to find a a balance between testing, you know, till the calistim home and doing no testing. Because I have people that come to me who’ve literally paid $10,000 out of pocket for testing, and they say, oh, doctor Tim, nothing’s wrong. And I’m like, well, just a few. I mean, let me see. I look at it. I’m not even off of page 1 yet, and I’ve already found, like, 4 imbalances. And so it it’s all in the eye of the beholder. And so you can test IgG and IgM antibodies.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:41:21]:
And previously, like, even in school, I was taught IgG means it’s a past infection. But other research, doctor Alex Vasquez, doctor Jacob Teitelbaum, who wrote from deep to fantastic, and doctor Kent Health has shown that if the IVG levels were 3 to 4 times or more, the top of the range that indicates a currently active infection. And, IgM certainly means, acute infection, but you need a robust th one, which I’ll define in a second, th one response to change I g, m antibodies to IgG antibodies. And so, basically, t h stands for t Health, and the one, think of that as being the bodyguards inside your house. So if I had some bodyguards right over here, they’re gonna protect me if someone breaks down my front door. And then the t helper 2, think of those as being, like, on the perimeter of my property. And so they’re gonna try to prevent anyone from just getting on the premises and then getting in the door. And you want sort of the bats.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:42:29]:
Right? You want your immune system to be able to go back and forth. Most people are stuck in the t h two portion of their immune system today for a variety of reasons. But what that does is it creates the 3 a’s, the allergies, the asthma, and the autoimmunity. Now I know there’s people listening saying, well, you can get autoimmunity in t h one, and they’re right. You can’t. It’s just much more likely in the t h two portion. So, things like glutathione, for example, one of the ways they work is they help to take you out of the t h two and put you back to the t h one or in the middle of these. And so glutathione is a very potent antiviral, but it also is a potent immune modulator.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:43:11]:
And so back to your original question about testing for pathogens, a lot of them do a really good job at hiding from the immune system. So let’s take Lyme for Peak. The western blot test saves you a false negative roughly 25 all the way up to 33% of the time. That’s a lot. Some numbers even more. And the reason for that is the first thing the Lyme bacteria does is it turns off what’s called the humoral immune response, which is essentially that t h two response. And so when you that’s what the western blot test. And so if you’re testing something that turned off, of course, it’s gonna be negative.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:43:50]:
But if you look at a country like Japan, there so when you do the western blot, it comes back in bands. Here in the US, you need 5 bands to be considered positive. In Japan, unless it’s changed, you only need 2. And so, you know, the stealth pathogens, they have a number of mechanisms through which they can confuse the immune system, and that leads to false negative tests. So sometimes, I’ll just address the pathogens empirically based on symptoms, questionnaires, etcetera. You know, if you’re using, like, IV antibiotics or something or IV antivirals, then, yeah, you would need test because, you know, you’re putting someone at risk. But if you’re using, mostly natural stuff at moderate doses, then you can go about it empirically. And so, you know, most people are gonna have a combination of viruses that textbook.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:44:45]:
I haven’t started reading it yet, but it’s called Microbes and Mental Health. And it’s about this, you know, phenomenon of pathogens, affecting the central nervous system. And when the pathogens cause a cytokine storm, which became popular during the pandemic, things like interleukin 6 and t n f alpha and interleukin 1 beta, They basically punch holes in the blood brain barrier, and that leads to molecules that should not have access to our brain. They now have direct access to it. And we have a type of white blood cell in our brains called a microglial cell. And when they’re turned on, it’s okay if they’re turned on, but they should be turned off not, long after. When they stay turned on, it leads to brain fog, memory issues, mood swings in the short term, and other things. In the long term, it leads to neurodegeneration, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:45:40]:
That’s not the only cause, but it’s one of the primary ones.

Nick Urban [00:45:43]:
They’re also highly activated during concussions or TBI.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:45:47]:
Yeah. Exactly. And, I have a good case study of a client who she was being pulled behind a boat on on inner tube, and, like, she had her head resting on the Nick. Like, she was just kinda leaning back like that. And she went outside of the wake, and she went way up in the air and came crashing down. Her head snapped back, and she had reactivated several viruses and pathogens. So it can be a car accident. It can be something like what I just described.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:46:16]:
Really, any stress or so. Look at something like a general surgery, even if it’s minimally invasive. First of all, that term is kind of, misrepresented. There’s no such thing as minimally invasive surgery. Your body only knows that you’re being caught. Right? Like, if you’re invading the body, it’s invasive. Our surgeons, it is what it is. But, you know, if you look postoperatively, one thing that always happens is reverse t 3 goes up, and reverse t 3 is like a Body Peak on your body.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:46:47]:
And so if that happens, you know, your body essentially goes into a state of torpor, hibernation, and that allows for pathogens to become reactivated. And so it look at someone like you know, if they have Parkinson’s, Mind, you know, like I said, they’ve been getting better and better, and then they went in for a procedure for whatever reason. And then now all of a sudden, they’re having a major flare up. You know, you have to look at those things and take those into consideration.

Nick Urban [00:47:15]:
So if you get a TBI, for example, and the symptoms are especially bad Mind it wasn’t like it was a big hit or something like that, then you might wanna consider, like, at least take notice of symptoms, log them down, and then watch how they change, like, the timeline of them changing because if you, like, over activate the microglia cells, then you let pathogens go from dormant to active again, and that could be the at least partially responsible for the symptoms you’re experiencing.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:47:45]:
Absolutely. Absolutely. And so, yeah, you know, the pathogens can activate the microglia and have a direct response or direct effect, and then they can punch Health, the cytokines, the inflammatory molecules in the blood brain barrier. And so going back to the gut, you know, if you have leaky gut or intestinal hyper permeability, eventually that’ll lead to a leaky blood brain barrier. And so that’s why, you know, there’s so that gut brain access is so well connected, and now we know that for every one signal the brain sends to the gut, the gut sends 8 signals back up to the brain.

Nick Urban [00:48:20]:
Yeah. And because gut dysbiosis and increased intestinal permeability are so common, if that can eventually lead to increased blood brain barrier permeability, that’s very significant and scary.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:48:33]:
Absolutely. And, you know, something I’ve been taking since 2009, low dose naltrexone. Oh,

Nick Urban [00:48:40]:
interesting.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:48:41]:
In the past, I had Lyme and mold toxicity, but now I mostly take it prophylactically. It’s not very expensive. Now full disclosure, if you Google just naltrexone, it’s gonna freak you out because it was designed to help heroin addicts taper off of heroin. But the key is being in the low dose part. And, there’s some free ebooks written by pharmacists and clinicians with tons of scientific references. I saw when I was still doing an in person practice, a lady who was on medication. I think it was, like, $1100 a month for her NAS medications, and then she switched to low dose naltrexone. And within 6 weeks, she went from being in a wheelchair to being able to walk independently most of the time.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:49:27]:
And it works on those microglial cells, and it also modulates that t h one, t upper one, and t h two response.

Nick Urban [00:49:35]:
Interesting. So what other things could that Health? Like conditions that someone was to experience would give them reason to look into LDN a little more?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:49:44]:
So I’ll tell you, basically, anything with inflammation. Let’s see. What is Optimization involved in? Every a lot. So I was just talking with a colleague or messaging with a colleague yesterday. He is, masters of science in nursing, and his wife’s also saves thing. She worked at a functional medicine clinic, but he has asked me, you know, she has Saves. What’s something we can do? And I said, just ask one of the doctors or prescribers on staff to write for LDN. It’s not like it’s gonna have a bunch of side effects.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:50:12]:
Worst case scenario is doesn’t work. And he messaged me yesterday and said, Greg, just cure. It’s gone. We have opioid receptors in the body and specifically on the immune cells. And what it does is it bioregulators CHEK, and then once that period is over, it upregulates them. And so just kind of a general concept, our nervous system cells, our immune system cells, and our endocrine system cells Bioharmony cells, they share a lot of the same receptors. And you can think of those three systems as being in sort of like a three way phone call constantly. So that’s why if you look at something like rheumatoid arthritis, one of the classic symptoms is major brain fog and cognitive impairment.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:50:57]:
Why would that be? You know? It’s back in the day, I learned it was mostly for the joints, but that’s simply not true. You know? It shares a lot of receptors, like I said, and so it can help with something like that. Even osteoarthritis, which we now know has an immune component to it as Health. Joint pain, chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, you know, any sort of spinal condition, inflammatory condition, it’s gonna help. It also raises natural killer cells, and natural killer cells are what keep us from getting cancer.

Nick Urban [00:51:32]:
Yeah. There’s a lot of reasons to consider it. I was actually writing an article on LDN. I haven’t used it, but I kinda wanna experiment with it. At some point, I’ll have, like, a pressing need right now. And because of, like, the normal naltrexone, it is a bit scary just to play around with unless you have a reason. But, yeah, it’s cool to hear that there’s so many different potential use cases for it.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:51:53]:
Yeah. I mean, just to be fair, so, like, I’ve never even spoke to cigarette in my life. Right? So, you know, I’m not into the illicit drug scene, but, the LDN is very, very, very different than the naltrexone proper. I mean, it’s a small fraction of the dosage. And so, you know, it’s not like I mean, I’ve gone periods where I went off of it for, like, a month just because I was traveling and whatever. Yeah. I mean, I noticed it, but it’s not like I’m in withdrawals. Like, it’s not like that.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:52:23]:
It’s not doesn’t have any addictive potential and, in fact, the opposite.

Nick Urban [00:52:27]:
I always find it interesting that when you introduce certain substances to the body, it has, like, a an effect that might seem undesirable, but what happens is the body hypercompensates and does the opposite even more so CHEK you end up with a baseline that’s in the direction the direction you wanna be even though the initial effect was the opposite of what you wanted.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:52:48]:
Yeah. That’s a great point. So I get a lot of people saying, oh, doctor Tim, I tried LDN. I had an allergic reaction to it. What’s happening is so if you’re stuck in that t helper 2 dominant state, when you take LDN, lebostamtrexone, it’s gonna shift you back over here. So all these pathogens that were getting ignored for a really long time, the immune system is now able to attack. So what you’re feeling is not a negative reaction to LDN per se. I mean, maybe once in a blue moon, but it’s very, very rare.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:53:21]:
But it’s the attack on the pathogens. And so that’s why you know, so I take CHEK Mind of the standard dose is 4.5 milligrams, But you generally start out at, like, 0.5 milligrams and gradually titrate up. That allows the body time to compensate. But, yeah, I mean, it it’s, it’s very good for people with chronic fatigue syndrome. Now you still wanna address the causative factors. But for me, because, you know, roughly 48 to 50% of people will get some form of cancer, I’m thinking I wanna do everything I can to support my immune system.

Nick Urban [00:53:58]:
I wanna talk more about the immune system, the relationship between the immune system and the mitochondria. But first, if since it’s it can be difficult to get, like, good blood testing or other testing to determine if you have an infection and especially a stealth infection. And the number of the more tests you add on, the more expensive it becomes. Are there any other proxies you can use to determine if you have or might have something? For example, if you feel good and otherwise, like, haven’t been sick in a long time Mind you see elevated white or abnormal white blood cell markers, that could be an indication. But what else? How else can we determine if we have something or might have something?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:54:38]:
Yes. So, you know, you can let’s take something like eosinophils, EOS on your blood work. You know, if they’re 3 or higher, you assume 2 things, either allergies or parasites or both. So that’s one, way to do it, you know, and that’s just

Nick Urban [00:54:56]:
Could it be a food intolerance as well? Because, actually, that was the marker that I was looking at my blood work, and it was, like, 7%, and that’s considerably above the normal.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:55:05]:
It could be. What I found is I stopped doing food sensitivity tests a while ago, and the reason being, they’re not all bad. But there’s only one lab that I know of that test foods in the raw form and in the cooked form, and that’s Cyrex Labs. And I don’t have any financial stake in Cyrex Labs. I’m just, you know, telling people what it does. But, the more diverse, the better the alpha diversity of the gut microbiome. So the more beneficial species we have, the more foods you can tolerate. And I’ve what I found is that, you know, if we test someone and they come back lit up like a Christmas tree, you know, that’s another stressor to their system because they’re like, oh, man.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:55:44]:
I can’t eat this. What am I gonna eat? All I can do is drink water and breathe air. And I’m like, okay. Well, let’s just work on the gut health because we gotta do that anyways. And then at the end, if you wanna really test for food sensitivities, we can. But I’ll tell you a quick story. A colleague and I, Mind this is, like, back in 2006, we drew blood on the patient. We sent it off to the lab.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:56:04]:
I won’t go to the lab under the bus, but we put the real name and address on one tube of blood and a fake name and address on the other 2. Results came back totally different. And a lot of times, you know, with food sensitivities, you know, when you cook a food, that’s gonna change the protein. It’s gonna denature the protein. So it changes the immunoreactivity. But the more diverse that microbiome is, the more healed the mucosal lining is, the less likely you are to react to a food. But, yeah, potentially, food sensitivities could do that as well. Other markers, you can look at things like c four Wait.

Nick Urban [00:56:42]:
Wait. Before we go on, I also used to be allergic to bees, and I was stung by a bee, like, 3 days, 4 days before that. How long after an exposure to an allergen?

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:56:55]:
I don’t know the exact time in terms of hours, but I would say that that definitely played. And I’m not saying it’s all of the, but it probably played a significant role in that marker being elevated for sure. But, you know, in terms of looking at other markers, we can check IgG and IgM to, you know, Epstein Barr, human herpes virus 6, HHV 6. But in general, one thing that’s good to do, thymic peptides or peptide bioregulators. So the thymus gland, you know, it’s that, sort of butterfly shaped gland that controls our immune system. And as we age and when we’re under stress, it involutes or shrinks. And so when I interviewed doctor Kent Holthorff, who’s kind of the godfather of peptides in the US, he said, you know, no matter what disorder we look at, one of the commonalities is that t h one response, it’s diminished. And so with things like, he has a product called thymogen alpha 1 that’s an oral, peptide that helps to regenerate the thymus gland.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:58:03]:
And at first, you might think, well, if someone has the autoimmune condition or a neuroimmune condition, taking that could exacerbate their symptoms. But it actually doesn’t. It actually makes them better because it’s like an adaptogen to the immune system. And so what I tell people, you know, we know most people are gonna have a few pathogens. Right? I’ve never tested this one that didn’t have Katalyst a few. And so the peptides, let’s do those, at least for a few months, get your immune system recalibrated, and then work on getting the stuff out like mycotoxins, you know, different mycotoxins affect different systems. But one thing they all have in common is they create immune system imbalances. And so, you know, if you’re trying to fight a pathogen and you have a lot of mycotoxins in your body, you’re treading water at best.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:58:56]:
And, you know, I know this from experience. I learned the hard way, but you can’t know until you know. Right? And so, you know, getting the bad stuff out and heavy metals as well. And there’s a a hierarchy there that’s related to the molecular weight of the toxins. And, again, I’ve learned this the hard way. So back in 2007, I did, like, 18 chelation IVs, and my heavy metal levels barely moved. I mean, a little bit, not like you would expect them to. And it was because I didn’t find out till about 4 years later, 3, 3 years later, that I had a lot of mycotoxins.

Dr. Tim Jackson [00:59:32]:
And so in general so let’s say you have both because, again, I’ve never tested someone for heavy metals that didn’t have at least 3 or 4 that were moderately. We wanna get the mycotoxins out first, and then the metals will be much easier to get out.

Nick Urban [00:59:48]:
Yeah. And there’s definitely a an order of operations here too. Like, you can really work hard on eliminating the mycotoxins of the heavy metals, but if you don’t realize it Mind you’re living in a room that’s contaminated with it, either of them, then you’re gonna be reexposing yourself every day, and the most expensive, fanciest biohacks and products are not gonna solve anything if you don’t first address the environment that’s reinfecting you and worsening it every single time you’re you’re there.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:00:16]:
That yeah. That’s a great point. And, you know, one thing we have to work pretty hard on, I mean, most people need to clean their nose out more. I don’t just mean blowing your nose, but, a colleague of mine is an ENT in Atlanta, and he created a product, Citra drops. It’s a nasal spray, and then I combine that with doctor Hanna’s hypertonic, nasal rinse solution. I rinse my nose out 2 to 3 times a day, but you can detox the mold from your body and remediate your environment. But if mold has colonized the paranasal sinuses, you’re constantly poisoning yourself from within. And so, he actually I’ll tell you this quick story.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:00:58]:
Colleague a mutual colleague of ours who’s a nutritionist, she was eating healthy, working out, taking supplements. She was suicidal, and she went to see him. He cultured her nose, had major mycotoxins in her nose. He sprayed the sinuses. Now she’s like a new mom.

Nick Urban [01:01:17]:
Yeah. You mentioned doctor John Laurence earlier, and he also has a product. I believe it’s called Glutostat, and it’s a nosepray you use. It’s supposed to break up the biofilms to protect the pathogens, Biohacking them hard to Institute, and then you have glutathione in there, the same nutrient you’re discussing Urban, and perhaps something else to help clear the nasal passageway.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:01:39]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And, you know, the nasal passage, he also does that, functional cranial release where he puts the balloon on the end of the device and then puts up the notes and inflates it. And it works on the Dura matter, but if you look at, like, the videos he has on social media with, like, Gary CHEK, you know, when he measures someone FEV 1, the force expiratory volume in one second, it increases greatly after the procedure or technique. And so, like, that’s what he used to, heal Dana White’s, play baton. And so, you know, if you’re even for athletes who are looking to, you know, get that last 3 to 5% gain or edge, you know, if you can optimize your breathing, you’re gonna better oxygenate your body. And so I just interviewed, an ENT in, Houston, Texas who he’s doing some work with the NFL, but he does a very specific type of surgery to correct, enlarged turbinates and, other abnormalities in the nose to optimize oxygen uptake.

Nick Urban [01:02:46]:
Doctor Tim, how do we determine if this is necessary? Because with all these things, they can be like rabbit Health. They’re, like, research and potentially implementing EMS, but with so much time and resources available in a day, how would you determine, for example, if it’s if it makes sense to work on your nasal passages?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:03:06]:
So you can do a little test where so if you look at mine, saves a partial collapse. So I sleep with something called nasal mutes, m u t e s. You can get them on Amazon. They’re, like, $23. They’re little just little pieces of silicone that go in your nose that keep your nasal passages open while you sleep. And then I have a oral appliance that brings my mandible down to 4. And so it took me from having I think it was 23 hypoxic events per hour because I have pretty thick neck, you know, from working out. So Podcast time I tested, I had 11, but then I moved up on my appliance.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:03:43]:
So retesting again in a few weeks. Hopefully, it’s down to around 5 or Nick. And then I still gotta do some, myofunctional therapy to retrain my tongue. So it’s also interconnected. You know, everything like, the whole body is, but especially the ears, the nose, the throat, and tongue, and it all, you know, ties in so nicely together. But I would say in general for people who have sinus issues, the worst thing you can do is called an antibiotic. Once in a while, it may be due to a bacteria, but the majority, excuse me, Sinus infections are due to fungus and or code. And if you go on an antibiotic

Nick Urban [01:04:24]:
know if it’s one of those?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:04:26]:
So they can culture and send it off, but most of

Nick Urban [01:04:29]:
the time EMS there’s no at home test. Like, okay. This is clearly mold because when I exhale, I see this color or something like that?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:04:35]:
Right. No. Not that I know of, anyways. But, you know, if you take the antibiotic, you’re killing off beneficial bacteria in the gut, and gut issues can lead to increased, nasal congestion and postnasal drip. And so, yeah, breathe in clean air. Like, I have an air doctor running behind me, and then you can do something like, Navage, nasal rinse, or I use doctor Hannah’s nasal rinse, and you just change it out every 5 to 6 months. Mind that’s something easy. It’s just kinda maintenance that’s good to do, for anyone even if you’re not having an issue.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:05:15]:
But if you do those things and you’re still having an issue, you may, you know, wanna be evaluated by someone who’s well versed in functional medicine, because it could be mold, mycotoxins that’s colonized, paranasal sinuses. It could be a deviated septum. It could be, you know, a nasal collapse when you inhale. And so it could be any d number of things.

Nick Urban [01:05:40]:
Gotcha. Yeah. Good to know. Are there any other links between mitochondria and the immune system that you think are worthy of discussing? I’m sure that we could talk about that for a whole another podcast.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:05:50]:
Yeah. So what I would say is, when you have pathogens, they create something called microbial mitochondropathy. And all that means is it’s like the pathogens you’re using the mitochondria is a Urban Nick, you know, like a speed back. And so we can, improve mitochondrial function by decreasing the adaptogen. But some people might argue the opposite. So you gotta produce enough ATP to get your immune cells. So if I have a white blood cell here and a pathogen’s here Mind CHEK can’t give over there, then it’s not doing me any good. So, like, Quest has a test called the CD Nick activity test.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:06:32]:
CD 56 is a type of, white blood cell, and the activity level tells you, can it get to where it needs to go? Because the absolute number, the quantity may be optimal, but if it can’t get to where it needs to go to attack the pathogen, it’s not really a benefit.

Nick Urban [01:06:52]:
And then on the peptide front, are you a fan of mitochondrial peptides, like, I think it’s s s 31 and the one that what’s the one that I use called?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:07:01]:
Mont C.

Nick Urban [01:07:02]:
Mont C.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:07:03]:
Yeah. So I haven’t used those. I’ve heard nothing but good things. So, yeah, I think those can be very beneficial, and, you know, you can take them continuously or you can cycle them. And then if you do something like invest in an aquacure machine, you know, the molecular hydrogen, works for so many conditions, basically every condition, because the size of the molecule, it’s so small, I can get into the mitochondria. But the, yeah, the peptides, if you combine it with something like an aquacure, like, you know, it’s a good one two punch. And then, you know, if you’re getting the right fatty acids in to make sure the membranes, cell membrane, the nuclear membrane, the mitochondrial membrane, make sure they’re Health, that’s a good sound, very thorough protocol.

Nick Urban [01:07:53]:
Gotcha. Is there a risk of overclocking our mitochondria, for example, by taking some of the boosters and the peptide and then adding on molecular hydrogen if there’s a reason that our body is already downregulated production?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:08:10]:
I would say so, with the peptides, I mean, you can probably overdose on any peptide or overdo it, because anytime you increase ATP production, the cells are gonna start to dump toxins and attack pathogens. So it could be an adverse reaction to the high dose or it could just be a consequences of increasing ATP production. But I think, you know, as long as you remain within relatively reasonable dose, you know, there’s not gonna be any safety concerns at all. And with the molecular hydrogen, I have I’ve literally had periods where I sit EMS the couch for 6 hours straight, breathe it in. I mean, there’s no upper toxicity limit with it.

Nick Urban [01:08:52]:
Yeah. Let me rephrase my question. The body isn’t stupid, and it doesn’t just decide that it’s gonna be lazy and throttle mitochondrial, like, output. So when it does, it’s because there’s a reason that it believes conserving biosynergy, perhaps to not generate as many reactive oxygen species or cellular exhaust as it’s sometimes called. So if we’re circumventing the body’s protection mechanisms of decreased output, are there potential risks of using those therapeutics?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:09:26]:
I mean, you may consider them Nick, but in general, you know, if the cell danger response is active, it’s just probably gonna take that energy and divert it towards, you know, going after the pathogens. It it’s unlikely still

Nick Urban [01:09:39]:
a good thing.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:09:40]:
Yeah. So it’s still a good thing. Exactly. So your immune cells, you know, they’re very dependent on mitochondrial ATP production for their activity. And what I would say though is you can definitely overdo it with antioxidants. And so, you know, remember the white blood cells and the immune cells, they use oxidative stress to kill pathogens. And so that’s how things like ozone work. Right? But with the molecular hydrogen in general, I mean, you’re gonna be fine if you use that.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:10:10]:
I mean, I know one MD who, healed her Lyme disease using I mean, she used a few things, but mostly molecular hydrant.

Nick Urban [01:10:18]:
Well, doctor Tim, we will start to wind this one down. If people want to get a Health of you, to follow your work, to connect with you on socials, how do they go about that?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:10:27]:
Yeah. So my website is heal your body dot org. So heal your body dotorg. It’s at doctor Tim Jackson on Institute, and on Facebook, it’s doctor Tim Jackson as well. And my podcast, if I can mention it, is the Boss Body Podcast. It’s on my website, and I hope to have you on and interview you as well.

Nick Urban [01:10:53]:
Absolutely. And I’ll put a link to everything we’ve discussed so far in the show notes for this episode. I have a couple more questions for you before we part ways today. If there was a worldwide burning of the books and all knowledge on Health is lost, but you get to save the works of 3 teachers, Who would you choose and why?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:11:13]:
So I’m gonna go with modern, guys, but doctor Kent Holthorff, for in Los Angeles peptides guy, and, I mean, well versed in all aspects of functional medicine. Doctor Jack Fruse, you know, for environmental and bringing the importance of your EMS and light environment, circadian rhythm. And then I would probably say, Jeffrey Bland because he’s done so much for functional medicine.

Nick Urban [01:11:43]:
Perfect. What is one thing that you’re interested in or researching these days?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:11:50]:
Yeah. So I would say peptide bioregulators. You know, I’m still relatively new to them. I’m learning more about them. I’ve interviewed 2 people about them now. I haven’t used hardly any of I actually haven’t used any, bioregulators myself, but, you know, there’s such important signaling molecules. And, depending on which ones you’re using, you can cycle EMS. So it’s not like something you have to take constantly.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:12:18]:
And I think, like, if you look at something like Epitalon, which is technically a peptide and not Body or regulator, but, you know, you can take it for 10 days every 6 months, and it’s gonna have pretty profound antiaging benefits. And you can stack it with something like, the thymic peptides. So one of the hallmarks of aging is the shrinking of the thymus gland. So if you can keep the immune system robust and help the telomeres with the epitalon, then, you know, that’s a good one two punch. And, you know, a lot of people, you know, don’t have the finances or can’t dedicate the resources to take in that many supplements, and I get it. You know, they’re expensive. So look at things like natural sunlight and then peptide where you can take for literally 20 days out of the year and still get pretty significant benefits.

Nick Urban [01:13:11]:
Absolutely. I wrote an article on bioregulators. They’re very hard to get because they’re always out of stock, but when you can get them, the research coming out of Russia on them is pretty interesting and promising. And, yeah, I love that you can just take it for very short periods every once in a while and get benefits. And I’ve heard there’s serve several studies coming out of the US soon to validate the Russian reports and research as well.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:13:38]:
Yeah. Absolutely. For sure.

Nick Urban [01:13:41]:
Okay. What’s one thing that your tribe does not know about you?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:13:46]:
So my after my sophomore year in undergrad at Wake Forest University, I went on, a trip to the Republican Georgia to work with refugee children from Abkhazia, in Tbilisi, Georgia. And we were there for 10 days. And so we worked on, you know, improving, like, wasn’t orphanage, but kind of an orphanage. You can think of it that way. Proving the structure, just spending time with them, letting them know people cared. And, yeah. So I don’t share that with a lot of people, but, I I’d very much enjoyed that.

Nick Urban [01:14:22]:
Well, how would you like to wrap up our episode together today? Any final words or parting thoughts?

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:14:28]:
Yeah. I would say health and and optimal health doesn’t have to be as complicated as a lot of times we make it. I mean, yeah, we went down a lot of biochemical rabbit holes and biohacking rabbit Health. But if you look at something like a strong sense of purpose, that, and a healthy social connections. I’m not promoting Biohacking, but if you look at the blue zones, sometimes you see people living to to a 105 or a 110 who smoked, but they had a strong sense of purpose, and they had a healthy social connections. And I think, you know, those two things like, now we’re more disconnected than ever. Like, the neighbors on this side of me, I’ve seen them maybe twice in 2 years. And so, like, we need, you know, more communication.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:15:16]:
We need to realize it takes a village, and we need to stop arguing as much Mind Melinda helping him.

Nick Urban [01:15:23]:
Perfect way to wrap this one up. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you, and looking forward to another conversation at some point.

Dr. Tim Jackson [01:15:33]:
Thanks so much for having me, Nick. I really appreciate it. Thanks for the work that you’re doing.

Nick Urban [01:15:37]:
Thank you for tuning in to this episode. Head over to Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts Mind leave a rating. Every review helps me bring you thought provoking guests. As always, you can find the show notes for this one at mindbodypeak.com/ and then the number of the episode. There, you can also chat with other peak performers or connect with me directly. The information depicted in this podcast is for information purposes only. Please consult your primary Health care professional before making any lifestyle changes.