Stop Focusing on Your Disease & Build Your Health with These Integrative Tools

Nick Urban [00:00:07]:
Are you a high performer obsessed with growth and looking for an edge? Welcome to MINDBODY Peak Performance. Together, we’ll discover underground secrets to unlocking the full potential of your mind, body, and spirit. We’ll learn from some of the world’s leading minds, from ancient wisdom to cutting edge tools and everything in between. This is your host, Nick Urban. Enjoy the episode. A lot of people claim to practice holistic health or even holistic medicine, but underneath the surface, it’s really just the same approach doctored up and presented through a slightly different lens. But every once in a while, I come across someone who’s on the front lines and actually working with a number of the world’s high performers in different capacities. Sometimes these folks propping up the high performers are in the shadows and not as well known.

Nick Urban [00:01:10]:
Perhaps they don’t have massive social media presence, they don’t have a huge online platform, but nonetheless, they have lots of real world experience that we all can learn from. And that’s exactly what I’m bringing to you this week. In this conversation, we discuss the importance of beginning any protocol only after establishing an understanding of physical health, both the quantitative side and the qualitative. We go behind the scenes to discuss some of the technologies our guest uses to actually get that snapshot of his client’s current state. One of those is a diagnostic I’ve discussed a number of times in this podcast called Health rate variability, HRV, but not the way most of us are used to seeing it. The form of HRV he uses is much more advanced and yields more actionable results. We discuss the power of live blood analysis to measure the faster responses to state changes. We also discuss assessments and the whole qualitative side neglected in traditional healthcare.

Nick Urban [00:02:29]:
Then we go on to the other nonphysical realms such as the mind, emotions, and we discuss at length a system called the Hermetic principles as outlined in a book called CHEK Kybalion. Although we had no intention of diving into these, and I didn’t even know he was familiar with that work, to me, it’s a system that warrants discussion because it really helps elucidate and clarify a lot of the natural phenomenon we experience in life and we see around us. So if you feel inspired, I suggest picking up that book and giving it a flip through. Later in the conversation, we discuss the topic of toxicities and homotoxicology and German biological medicine, as well as how your adaptability determines so much of your overall health. Our guest shares his opinion and approach to longevity, how to optimize it the right way, and in general CHEK it comes to health, the missing layer of context, the role that plays, and how to look at things and make better choices. Our guest this week is Roland Pankiewicz. He’s a health explorer dedicated to understanding all aspects of wellness. His journey began with physical health and expanded into nutrition, biochemistry, functional medicine, biophysics, bioenergetics, metaphysics, shamanism, psychedelics, and eastern practices.

Nick Urban [00:04:07]:
And in this interview, we touch on each of those. Roland runs Peak Performance Bioenergetics, a consulting firm for high performance clients, and he teaches health professionals how to adopt a truly holistic perspective. Mentored by a number of the world’s leading experts, Roland applies his unique approach to not only consulting but also teaching. You can find the show notes for this one and all the resources we discuss at mindbodypeak.com/thenumber Body. And if he provides them, I will be sure to go back and update the show notes with a link to his socials and or website. Okay. Well, sit back, relax, and enjoy this conversation with my friend, Roland Pankiewicz. Roland, welcome to the podcast.

Roland Pankewich [00:05:03]:
Thanks for having me, Nick.

Nick Urban [00:05:04]:
Yeah. We’ve been coordinating this one for months now, and I’m excited to dive into a number of different topics with you. But first, one thing that stood out from our conversation a second ago is that you are in the health and wellness world, and you’re successful despite having not having a website or any presence on social media. So what is it that you’re that you do that you’re able to have success despite those limitations or precede limitations?

Roland Pankewich [00:05:37]:
I mean, if any business coach saw how I operated, they’d be like, you’re hell bent on failure, aren’t you? But I believe that perception is reality and belief powers up perception. So I’ll explain what I mean. Years ago, I was in nutrition school, and I started to realize that everyone spends so much time, and there’s there’s no fault of this. It’s just an opportunity to build out your brand. And there’s so many people who have these, like, turnkey things that are like, oh, I’ll teach you how to brand, and then everyone follows the pattern. Mind there is this moment where I had this If I try to look at everything a 180 degrees from how everyone else looks at it to see if there’s something that’s not being seen And I had this internal thought of going, everyone’s gonna do their same version of the same framework. The same scaffolding is gonna be there for everyone. So what’s the differentiating factor in what determines success for 1 and maybe a lack of success for the other? It’s about who likes who better.

Roland Pankewich [00:06:34]:
It’s about, you know, the the one thing that someone can judge in an instant versus the thing that someone’s gonna get turned off by. So I went, well, everyone’s spending so much time branding. Why don’t I just learn the stuff that no one else wants to learn? And how that led me into where I am now is it kind of gave me this opportunity to get into these different echelons of professionalism and being exposed to different Peak. You know? Because of what I knew, I would interact with someone who would say, oh, you have to meet my friend. You guys have mutual Katalyst. And so that was, you know, like, one of the top bodybuilders in the world introduced me to a guy who’s Sydney Crodby’s personal trainer, who introduced me to a whole bunch of people in the NHL. And then it just kind of evolved to where I get these random phone calls or text messages every so often that so and so wants to reach out. They want this done.

Roland Pankewich [00:07:24]:
They want that done. And I’ve just never believed that this way of doing business was gonna lead to failure. So I’ll call it like a happy Forrest Gump Practitioner, but it’s allowed me to focus on my craft so I can really sharpen my skill set. And I believe there’s a big guidance aspect. I’m I’ve made it ready for those who are willing to come to see me because they’re also ready for what it is I do because it’s not as common as other people in the health space.

Nick Urban [00:07:49]:
Oh, Roland, we will break down what it is that you do and why these, like, elite athletes and, like, high level business people seek you out. But before we get into that, let’s warm up with the unusual nonnegotiables you’ve done so far today for your health, your performance, and your bioharmony.

Roland Pankewich [00:08:08]:
Well, it’s funny you say bioharmony because I literally got something delivered to me yesterday called, it’s from a company called Biomimicry. I don’t know if you ever heard of that.

Nick Urban [00:08:18]:
Yeah. I have their their cube right here.

Roland Pankewich [00:08:21]:
Oh, oh, it’s oh, my god. This is weird. This is awkward. You’re got this.

Nick Urban [00:08:28]:
Look at that.

Roland Pankewich [00:08:29]:
I I told you. Not only was the weird t shirt color Nick synchronicity, but what are the odds of those things happening? There’s something going on in in the world right now. So to answer your question, I’ve wanted to anchor the grid of where I work because you can’t escape 5 g. You know, I live in not a condensed city center, but I live downtown of St. Petersburg. And there’s a lot of non native electromagnetic fields and various things that cause a lack of resonance to our own biofield. So one thing that I’ve done today that I’ve been wanting to do for a while is I’m trying to anchor the spaces that I spend most of my time in to be as resonant and energetically hospitable as possible. But, you know, the other thing that I try to do is I try to have consistency within my day.

Roland Pankewich [00:09:17]:
So it’s a very simple thing, but the simple things really move the needle. I get up in the morning Mind I go outside and I put my feet on the ground and I get some sun in my eyes Why I want to set my circadian rhythm and I want to touch into the ground having been disconnected from the earth for 8 hours overnight I hydrate first thing in the morning I put some trace minerals in water or some Health sea salt Why? Because, water and structured water in the body and making sure you have minerals helps all those cellular processes be optimized from a a raw material supply perspective. Some people are intermittent faster as I’ve kind of changed my tune on that. So I follow kind of like a natural bio rhythm of when I eat breakfast similar time every day. And I have coffee with my wife first thing in the morning because that’s how I start my day before I do anything else. So at least I can have a little bit of quiet time before the rush of the day gets going.

Nick Urban [00:10:10]:
I didn’t realize it, but our morning routines are almost identical to, including the salt and the trace minerals in the water. This is getting weirder and weirder. Wait till they start trace minerals in the water.

Roland Pankewich [00:10:16]:
This is getting weirder and weirder. Wait till I start finishing your sentences halfway through the podcast. Yes. Exactly.

Nick Urban [00:10:22]:
Alright. Let’s go back to where we left off. And what is it that you do that has bring these people into your sphere?

Roland Pankewich [00:10:31]:
I’ll start with Mind of telling the story of what I’ve done that’s brought me to this realization of what I do now. I’ve always been fascinated with health and performance specifically. You know, I remember being a young kid and watching, like, the world’s strongest man competitions or watching Olympic athletes and going, wow, that is like the pinnacle of what a human is capable of doing. The how of that fascinate me. Not the why, the how. How does it all come together? And I was always in interested in non typical sports, very much individual sports when I was younger. I started studying exercise to become more powerful and stronger for the sports that I I’d Peak, and I eventually settled on, kickboxing, which is not a great career path. So if anyone wants to become a professional fighter, might not wanna use your head as a punching bag for the long term.

Roland Pankewich [00:11:17]:
That being said, exercise showed me that there’s this physical coherence in the body that athletes have. And there is an intelligence to an athlete’s body that is not IQ, but it’s we’ll call it PQ, a physical quotient. I don’t know if that’s a thing, but I just made it up. And as you start to do these things, you start to attune your nervous system to have a greater level of capability and adaptability. And that is really what, you know, other than the God given talent, which separates a good athlete from a great athlete is how attuned they are to their body. As I got through that I started doing personal training Mind various other things and then the world pushed me in a different direction and I started studying nutrition and biochemistry. And it was a holistic school, and I was so closed off to anything holistic, hippie, granola. I remember I was in a course Mind someone, volunteered me to do muscle testing.

Roland Pankewich [00:12:09]:
And I’m like, listen, lady, I’ve studied exercise mechanics. I can beat your test. I was so arrogant in my thinking. And she muscle tested something, and I tried to cheat it every which way. But no matter what I did, I failed the test. I’m like, oh, there’s something to this. But I myself was never considered a good student. So as I was going through school, the owner of the school came up to me one day.

Roland Pankewich [00:12:30]:
She said, Roland, I know the courses you’re gonna teach for me when you graduate and I was just left stunned I’m like I haven’t even handed in half of my homework you want me to teach for you And the opportunity code, and I had no to tutelage Mind no preparation really for teaching. I had to figure it all out. So I just started focusing on understanding biochemical pathways and organ systems and all these things. And then teaching helped me communicate what I had to learn practically in order to help people. So it went from CHEK exercise thing to exercise and movement plus food, and then the body and biochemistry. Fast forward after a few years, I’m like, I really wish there was something more to this. I wish I Katalyst people like a doctor, but not prescribe pharmaceutical. And then literally the world of functional medicine was introduced to me a month later.

Roland Pankewich [00:13:18]:
Very much, you know, serendipitous. And I thought that was the coolest thing ever because you’re, like, you’re testing biomarkers, and you’re looking at functional capacities of thing. And then you start drilling down into functional medicine. This is not a critic criticism of functional medicine, but it’s still a bit of a halfway house because the limitations of functional labs are that you will never figure out a health based process by focusing on disease. So that’s a philosophical thing that I believe and I’ve learned. And then the second thing is a human being technically is a different person every second of the day. So if someone does a functional lab test Mind it takes 4 weeks for the results to come back, who are you really treating? Institute say there’s no value in it, but then you start to get introduced to the hierarchy of sciences, and the biochemistry world is what predominates in the western world. But then I started going deeper when I started studying things like eastern traditions, Chinese medicine, some of the metaphysical stuff, the chakra systems.

Roland Pankewich [00:14:15]:
And then I don’t know if you’ve ever delved into this, but the world of biophysics. So it’s the where the the the laws of nature interact with the physical universe. In the context of health, it’s looking at humans as energetic beings primarily that take on physical form. And you start to realize how these very complex interactions, although simple in essence, it takes a lot to understand the context of biophysics. And that’s still where I am in my own journey because I’m never a student of, you know, standing still. I’m always gonna be a student of life. So I think it’s all of these things that have given me this wide cast net to be able to connect with a strength coach in pro hockey or, you know, an energetic coach who does shamanic work or someone who’s a functional medicine or an allopathic doctor, I try to speak everyone’s language and figure out where the unification is. Because the physical person is physical, but they’re also a mental Mind emotional and a spiritual being.

Roland Pankewich [00:15:14]:
And I’ve realized that holistic encompasses all of those things. This is you’re the first person I’m gonna mention this to, but I’ve come up with this concept of not just a holistic holistic health practitioner, but a hybrid health Practitioner, meaning what the person requires is where you start with them. So I just had a client who was here. He was ex military. So I’m not gonna talk to him about the concept of childhood traumas and figuring out what’s going on with chakras. I’m gonna get into, like, he’s got tightness. He’s got some stuff going on with the body. We look at a movement thing, and then we talk about lifestyle, food, diet, supplementation, exercise.

Roland Pankewich [00:15:51]:
But then I bring him into the world of bio resonance and bioenergetics with diagnostic tools I have. I look at the autonomic nervous system. And from knowing how the body organizes itself in terms of how it regulates itself and the interconnections of all the organs and tissues you can make assessments Mind, I don’t wanna say assumptions because they’re not assumptions. The pattern recognitions of where someone’s body is based upon looking at the nervous system. And that allows me to figure out who I’m working with and where I’m gonna go. So it probably answered a little bit more than your question. I’m I’m sorry for oversharing the the context of info there, but I think that answered it fundamentally.

Nick Urban [00:16:32]:
With that approach, if you’re coming if he’s coming to you and he mentions that he has this tightness and you look at it and see it as an overflowing stress bucket or high allostatic load and you don’t think that he’s necessarily gonna be receptive to the idea of, like, one of these holistic Practitioner. What do you do in in that situation? Because I’m sure all the time people come to you wanting or thinking it’s one thing when you say, okay. I Nick like that’s CHEK symptom. But if I go below that and I treat, not treat, but I we address the layer below that, then it will fix the upstream issue as well.

Roland Pankewich [00:17:07]:
Well, I think the answer to that in concept is exactly what you put forth. What is the best way to stimulate an adaptogen from an allostatic load perspective? You introduce the least amount of unaccustomed activity to allow for the appropriate response and regulation, I URBAN adaptation. So with a guy like that, if he’s coming to me to experience something body related The first thing I do is I have a very long conversation Mind I ask him to tell me his story Because success for someone’s life leaves clues as to where major milestones of things happen. So if he starts to talk about his body experience Mind he says, well, you know, I noticed this after this happened or at this point in my life, this thing was a a resonant theme, then I start to talk to him about, well, you know, what kind of experiences were you having and what kind of emotions were you having during that time frame? Was it highly stressful? And I go into the realm of how neurology works, where neurons with fire together begin to wire together simple concepts to explain to people. Because if you had a physical trauma, any negative physical trauma usually has a negative emotion associated with it which then has a memory that’s attached to a mindset or a sub conscious way of relating with that experience. And that’s how I introduce it to a guy like that because I meet him where he is, and I’ll speak to him in his parlance as a military guy who’s used to structure hierarchy and connection points. So I figure out how the person needs to be communicated with, and I bring him along the journey, and then I just listen.

Nick Urban [00:18:40]:
Yeah. So a lot of it is just dressing up the way you’re communicating the principles. You’re not gonna talk about chakras and energy management to him necessarily, but you can talk about, like, like, feelings of, like, anger or whatever it is, grief being stuck certain Urban places of his body and and that kind of thing, like, how it impacts his neurology and physiology.

Roland Pankewich [00:18:58]:
Exactly. But I also use technology to my advantage because I have a lot of devices I use for an assessment on everyone I see. It’s very comprehensive. It takes about 2 hours. And the wonderful part is in the technology, they have the depiction of results across different spectrums of medical established medical practice based upon Western and Eastern medicine. So I can show someone their autonomic state of Optimization. You know, what degree of sympathetic versus parasympathetic nervous system dominant they currently have. But it also shows it in a chakra page.

Roland Pankewich [00:19:32]:
So I can start to correlate. So if I wanna introduce someone who’s very left brain western minded to chakras, I I look at where the correlation is. So what’s at the center of every chakra? It’s a major organ. Right? So the the root chakra, if you will, is the lower digestive system. Some people say it’s the reproductive glands. Some people say that’s sec second chakra. But I say, look, Each major chakra has, a central point of an Urban. And the purpose of that organ is to communicate with the rest of the organs in the organ system via either typically a hormone or a neurotransmitter or something.

Roland Pankewich [00:20:08]:
And then we have the fast system, which is the nervous system, which is communicating systemically all the time, relaying info back to the brain. And then we have the slower system, which is the endocrine system. So I say chakras are an eastern concept, a representation of the non physical form of what our physical bodies are. And that usually softens people to go, oh, this isn’t crazy pseudoscience that my yoga teacher was trying to talk to me about. It’s actually something that can be established as an Eastern and Western way of describing the same thing.

Nick Urban [00:20:40]:
Yeah. Joe Dispenza, he calls them energy centers to avoid the negative stigma that westerners have with the idea of chakras.

Roland Pankewich [00:20:48]:
And the reality is if I can open someone up to a closure of perspective there, not only has has their opportunity for change dramatically increased, but what they can actually allow into their saves, because again, perception is reality. If you think it’s bogus CHEK it’s going to be bogus to a large degree in your world. If you soften yourself to it you become more open. And when people become more open they move away from fear, and they become able to heal, I think, a lot better.

Nick Urban [00:21:16]:
Alright. So you clearly start on the physical plane with a lot of people. If someone’s recounting their story to you and they they’re leaving out something, perhaps it’s because they it’s was such a negative memory that they’ve dissociated from it, and they can no longer recall it unless they’re prompted. How do you know that they’re giving you all the most important things?

Roland Pankewich [00:21:37]:
The story someone tells is who that person is showing up as that day. So the most important thing is to honor what they’re ready to willingly share because you made a brilliant point. If the subconscious has stashed something away, I believe that that is a a defense mechanism or a compensation mechanism that the human mind has for something that is too painful to consciously deal with. So if someone is willing to share with you the most valuable thing in their world, which is their inner secrets, you have to not go, oh, this is not the this is not the death. I’m gonna go pull it out of you. Like, that is horribly arrogant and very, very, that’s an energetic mismanagement of the Hippocratic oath. To your point of how how do I know that it’s not the deepest thing, it doesn’t really matter. Because they start with what they wanna start with.

Roland Pankewich [00:22:26]:
If you’re working with someone, it’s so easy to become, romanticized about the idea of wanting what you want for them and forgetting that they’re gonna tell you everything they want for themselves, and you have to, you know, have to honor that. So, yes, starting with the physical Mind then allowing someone to tell the story, I found that they always open themselves up naturally when the time is right.

Nick Urban [00:22:48]:
You also alluded a minute ago to a 2 hour assessment intake. What are some of the tools that you use to help get that diagnostic baseline of where people are?

Roland Pankewich [00:23:01]:
So I have, 3 assessment devices. 1 is called the neural check. Have you ever heard of that before?

Nick Urban [00:23:08]:
Yeah. Is that by BrainTap?

Roland Pankewich [00:23:09]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I I do some work with BrainTap, and I help people I educate for them in terms of interpretation of the neural CHEK. So that’s my that’s my wide cast net. So the neural check gives it’s like a blunt tool. It’s not super strategic with anything, but it gives me What do you mean

Nick Urban [00:23:23]:
what it is?

Roland Pankewich [00:23:24]:
Yeah. I can actually show you. So it is simply a wrist clip device where you clip these two things on someone’s wrist. You attach it to to your computer, and the computer program runs a 300 heart rate analysis Mind based upon the patterns of how the heart rhythm is being maintained it can determine how someone’s nervous system is choosing to coordinate and regulate itself. Now people will call that HRV, and all of my real mentors in HRVs turn their nose up at the term because HRV is an actual isn’t an actual thing. It’s a marketing term. And most HRV devices like the WHOOP, the Oura ring, they’re not real HRV. They’re pulse Katalyst, be it digital pulse analysis through the finger, or they’ll put some light transcutaneously through the wrist, and they’ll pick up a pulse analysis through the wrist.

Roland Pankewich [00:24:18]:
What they have to do is they have to run that through an algorithm that’s proprietary, which is why your root data and your Oura Ring data or your Apple Watch data are all gonna be slightly different. So to me, the neural check is the best version of that broad spectrum analysis, and it gives me a baseline regulation pattern. Then I do a very specific autonomic nervous system assessment with a tool called the Nerve Express. So you put a polar h ten heart rate monitor on, and I have a series of things that people do through a program that stress and challenge the nervous system to see how the nervous system and how the heart regulate in response to the test. And that test,

Nick Urban [00:24:58]:
like, movements, or are they, like, exposures, other kinds of stimuli?

Roland Pankewich [00:25:02]:
They’re movements. So you start lying down, then you do an ortho test where you stand up, then you have a Peak, you do a Valsalva test, which is a breath hold with some pressure that you generate in the abdominal region to create a stress, and then you compare and contrast that with deep breathing. And what I like about Nerve Express is it plots someone on a a 4 quadrant assessment of where their sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are in terms of the responses to the test. And then what I the last thing I do is use a device called the MENLA scan. It’s a a bioimpedance hand and foot and, head assessment device where it puts a small amount of direct current on one side, a little bit of alternating current on the other side, and that models all the living tissues. So there’s an incredible amount of information that’s very overwhelming for people in there, but I’m looking for the most important measure of that test, which is called phase angle. Have you heard of phase angle before?

Nick Urban [00:25:56]:
Yes.

Roland Pankewich [00:25:57]:
So phase angle is a measure of living tissue vitality. And it also does, like, cellular water balance, intracellular, extracellular. And the reason those things matter is the vitality of living tissue, the the amount of light it’s able to, express and exude, and the structure of the water in the cells and in the body is ultimately what determines if someone’s Health or not. So the autonomic nervous system lets me know how their system’s regulating from an anabolic and a catabolic balance. Are they building resources? Are they regenerating healthy tissue? Are they conserving their energy, or are they doing the opposite? Are they driving with their car put to the floor in the gas Peak the whole time? The second level of assessment is is their tissue healthy, and do they have adaptability and reserve capacity left? Because I don’t really code, and I say this not being, you know, not caring. What someone’s diagnosis is is just what someone told them they have. I’m interested in how your system’s regulating because I don’t work off of any specific diagnosis. I try to make your healthy tissue healthier, and if the thing you’re dealing with resolves itself, then I’m happy.

Roland Pankewich [00:27:08]:
And because of my assessment, every intervention I do, I reassess someone the first day. Because if I’m not checking my work I’m making assumptions. Now if I’m making assumptions I have no idea if their body is tolerant to my interventions and they’re getting better, or if it’s actually too much for them and it’s pushing them the opposite way. So that’s my assessment process. Sit down, long conversation because people need to be seen and heard, and then I’m assessing their state of regulation with no consideration of their diagnosis. I just wanna know what their optimal energy process is and what their reserve reserve capacity or adaptability is.

Nick Urban [00:27:45]:
I think their qualitative of sitting down and listening to their story is something that’s severely missing in the medical paradigm, and things will come through, information you won’t get. Even just by looking at best, most high-tech, like, markers, you won’t see it quantitatively necessarily.

Roland Pankewich [00:28:03]:
Absolutely. Like, you can look at someone’s blood panel, but let’s say you never look in their eyes Mind you see that state of, like, exhaustion in their face. That matters. You know, the average person is in and out of a a physician’s office in under 15 minutes. One of my clients came in the other day, said his buddy who has Afib, his doctor didn’t even take a stethoscope to his chest and listened to his Health. And this guy is a cardiologist. I don’t know who this doctor is, so, you know, it’s irrelevant. But what I’m getting at is your point is so important because the average person and I’ve seen this.

Roland Pankewich [00:28:35]:
I’ve seen a heart rate variability assessment dramatically improve after someone had a huge emotional relief crying. His thoughts and emotions are things. You can’t see them, but you can feel them and experience them. And that’s hearkening back to the holistic concept of the Urban, because someone can be physically stressed out as a result of a psycho emotional problem that’s driving the the dysregulation, and the body is just showing that it’s Health enough.

Nick Urban [00:29:02]:
Back to your original point about the lab work taking 4 weeks to get your results Nick, and then by then, it might be out of date anyway and not useless, but have a lot less value. When you’re doing these assessments, how rapidly do they change in response to, like, lifestyle? For example, if I was coming over to do an intake with you and I got stuck in traffic, I was gonna be late, all of a sudden, obviously, my stress hormones are gonna shoot through the roof, and my body is gonna become much more dysregulated. So if we go into the intake then, I might have a terrible HRV. I might have, like, low phase angle, all, like, the symptoms, like, the signs of, like, someone who’s very Health, but then if you checked the next day or a couple hours later, perhaps it would be very different.

Roland Pankewich [00:29:48]:
So some of those things would be, for example, you could have a massive stress response that would influence your HRV. But if someone’s pattern regulation is their day to day life other than the episode is fairly stable, it might be a slight exaggeration of what their normal pattern would be. Phase angle is not gonna change dramatically unless someone has been injured, unless they’re severely dehydrated. So some of these markers are more long term assessment because you could have someone who has severe cancer and their phase angle is 4. It’s not gonna go to 7 overnight. It may bump up to 5 and a half when they leave your office because you’ve done a variety of different energetic interventions that Health to build, you know, structured water and energy in the system. But there’s only so much you can change some of those things on a short term basis. The reason I love looking at the autonomic nervous system is the person can tell you something but the physiology never lies.

Roland Pankewich [00:30:50]:
People can sit down and go like, yeah, I’m fine. But they don’t realize they’re fine. It’s chaos. It’s normal to them, but it’s not necessarily a healthy state of regulation because they have no contract. And that’s where the average person is because 5% of our realities, maybe more for some people, maybe less for others, is conscious. So if they are in a very much, a a rhythmic lull of their day to day being subconsciously guided, that’s highly stress Urban. They don’t think there’s anything wrong, but that could be, you know, massively adrenalized, regular cortisol output, hypodigestive function, necessitating, necessitating blood sugar swings, that they’re normal. So it’s being able to go, well, you say this.

Roland Pankewich [00:31:35]:
You’ve had this day. But what I’m seeing here from your physiology is no matter what I do, the the cons the the program, if you will, is being conserved. It means your body’s in fight or flight. And fight or flight is is the precipitating pathway to degeneration and illness.

Nick Urban [00:31:50]:
And a lot of times that illness and degeneration will present differently. It might be the same exact thing, saves, low HRV, high stress hormones, whatever it is. But based on your genetics, your epigenetics, your lifestyle, your day, I mean, all kinds of different things, it might present itself differently. I mean, as though ancient medicines called it your Institute. It’s like based on that, It’ll show up here as this symptom when it shows up for someone else as y symptom.

Roland Pankewich [00:32:21]:
That’s such a brilliant assessment, and it’s something that I saves always, thought of. And I’m I’m starting to say this as a concept now. Health is simple, disease is complex. And when I say simple, simple and easy are not synonyms. To be healthy is not an easy intuitive thing, but it is a simple concept. For me, it’s energy adaptability equals optimal function. The more you have of each, and if you do the things on a regular basis that refill your cup, so to speak, and you’re not doing things that drain you, you’re likely to be healthy. But how is it that you take 5 people who have stressful saves? 1 gets cancer, 1 gets cardiovascular disease, 1 gets autoimmunity, one gets a mental health issue, and one just gets burnt out.

Roland Pankewich [00:33:05]:
Disease is so complex because there’s so many different permutations of how it can manifest. And then to figure it out, you have to be a really good problem solver to reverse engineer all the things that that person needs for their system to be able to rebalance it itself, get out of sympathetic, get back into rest, recover, digest, and go from a catabolic to an anabolic state so they can reverse their symptom.

Nick Urban [00:33:30]:
I like to look at it as just building health instead of targeting a disease. Because if you target a disease by the nature of of what you’re doing, you’re not actually gonna address what’s causing the disease. So if you focus on building health, it’s the old adage of a rising tide lifts all boats. You’re gonna ideally address that issue and potential others that you might not even be aware of.

Roland Pankewich [00:33:52]:
Have you ever thought of us being in an industry that we call the health industry that we don’t have a unified definition of the word health?

Nick Urban [00:34:00]:
Yeah.

Roland Pankewich [00:34:01]:
It’s an interesting thing, isn’t it? Because what are we all working towards?

Nick Urban [00:34:05]:
And it’s not just the absence of disease?

Roland Pankewich [00:34:07]:
No. That just means you’re not sick. This doesn’t mean you’re healthy. Means you could be in process. It’s like that old Internet dinner that dial up, like, loading. Wait for that loading bar to Nick, then the symptom pops up.

Nick Urban [00:34:19]:
One thing you mentioned a second ago is that someone might come in Mind their physiology never lies. They might say that they’re Mind. They’re doing great. And then you do their or your quantification assessments Mind you see a lot of dysregulation. How much of a difference does their mindset and perspective of the stress make? So if I go in and I think that I’m doing great and I’m dysregulated, I’ll still probably be in a better state than if I went to you. You were in a test, and I was stressed about being stressed.

Roland Pankewich [00:34:50]:
I’ve seen certain pattern regulations, and it’s a very it’s a very interesting question only because if someone is under chronic stress, but their mental fortitude and their ability to manage it as a concept is quite strong, then their initial baseline assessment actually shows up much better than you would think otherwise. But I figured out a little tool and a little trick that I do to figure out what someone’s real pattern display might be. So I call it the hamster wheel. As long as you’re on the wheel, the wheel has a certain amount of inertia it generates. Right? So the hardest part about getting a wheel started is the beginning. Once it’s rolling, you could be more efficient with your energy. That metaphor is like stress. If you keep the stress going, you can run with that stress as long as you want, but you are at the mercy of its existence to keep things in balance.

Roland Pankewich [00:35:45]:
When I see someone like that, they’re, we’ll call them a physical mass, but they’re a mental point of stability. When I try to chill them out, meaning I put them in a really relaxed state, then their first initial baseline gets a lot worse after I test them. Why? Because I made them relax. And when the body relaxes, it shows itself. The reason why most heart attacks happen on a Monday because you chill out on a Sunday. So I thought about that a while back, and it used to freak me out going, oh my Body. I’m gonna kill this person. Like, they were so good, and now they’re over here.

Roland Pankewich [00:36:21]:
I’m like, that’s because you made them try to access the other half of the teeter totter, but they don’t have it. So it exhausts them to relax, and they feel worse because they can finally allow their body to go, ah, the out breath happened.

Nick Urban [00:36:38]:
Because you’re no longer running on cortisol and norepinephrine and adrenaline and all the other hormones that keep you going forward. And when you’re used to those, I see you have, like, a bit of a withdrawal if you don’t experience it even if it’s as simple as from just being stressed. Because you also look at high performers and a lot of them, like, credit their stress as their advantage Mind, like, it’s what kept them going forward. It’s what propelled them forward. So I can imagine that having that conversation about, hey. Like, perhaps you should add some stress management practices into your routine would be a hard conversation to have.

Roland Pankewich [00:37:12]:
Well, you’re basically telling someone the way that they’re living their life isn’t conducive to their wellness, but that reality may not jive with how they wanna live. So it’s really a question of what do you wanna do about this? Because the faster you get off the hamster wheel and you learn that you can rest before you jump back on the wheel, there’s nothing wrong with stress and stress as a stimuli to promote high performance and excellence. I think it’s a wonderful thing, or else you would all be mediocre at best. That being said, it’s the relationship with that, and I think the understanding the interplay between the mental projection of hard work and dedication and what the body has to do to provide you the opportunity to do Mind support support that is misunderstood. That’s where these things become problematic because I think as we we get from 0 to 25 years old, we’re in such an anabolic phase. It doesn’t really matter how much you stress yourself to some degree because you have enough reserve in the bank. You have enough money in the bank code just keep keep wiping or tapping the card, and it’s not really consequential to your long term saving. It’s once you cross over that threshold Mind you start to see the small signs of that vitality that that, you know, invincibility start to go away, like, oh, aches and pain, that’s tightness.

Roland Pankewich [00:38:33]:
It’s, oh, I can’t eat what I the little things that your body starts telling you, but you don’t actually associate them with, oh, I’m actually losing adaptability. So I’m compromising my system. And I like using a car analogy. Like, does driving your car harder make your car age more optimally? Like, just jamming on the brakes, just flooring the car, just flat foot shifting, does it make your car work better, or does it cause a breakdown? Premature breakdown. That is the thing that we don’t understand with our own bodies because they are biological technology, but there are rules to how the physiology has to regulate and govern itself if we want this thing to be able to perform into our 5th, 6th, Mind 7th decade of life, let alone not even perform, not be diseased at that point. Health isn’t guaranteed. Death is, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you look at it. But health is not guaranteed unless you understand how to take the physical, the mental, the emotional, and the spiritual aspects of self and find harmony so all of them can achieve some sort of subjective balance.

Roland Pankewich [00:39:38]:
Because what balance might mean to you might be totally different for me. As you said, our constitutions may be different. Although I think you and I are pretty similar because of our shirt color and our biomimicry ring wearing, but other people might have a different reality in that way. So that’s how I would look at that.

Nick Urban [00:39:54]:
Yeah. And so if you’re increasing your stress load from from lifestyle, from different things because, like, the overall stress load, it’s not just unique to work stress Mind your body silos off relationship stress and financial stress and all these as different places. It it all builds one stress bucket. It all contributes to that one. So if you’re under greater stress and it’s necessary for a chapter of your life to get through something. From your own analogy a minute ago, it seems to me, like, what would become important then is not necessarily to avoid that because sometimes it’s Institute, but instead to focus on building the other side of the seesaw Mind focusing on more recovery, more parasympathetic activities, and giving your body that break from all the stress.

Roland Pankewich [00:40:45]:
Perfectly said. It’s funny because when I was younger, when I would train in the gym, I would only plan my workouts. Right? I would only prioritize the stress side of thing. Now I prioritize and plan my recovery, or I give it equal weight to my my exercise in the context of what I wanna achieve, but you start to realize that perspective grows with age and wisdom. So to your point, there may be times where the stress of someone’s experience is a nonnegotiable. It’s what they’ve selected. And the term I came up with is how do you optimize the compromise? Everything in someone’s world is a compromise because of how society has structured itself to force us to structure ourselves within society. So I’m not here to tell someone never to have stress.

Roland Pankewich [00:41:35]:
I’m not gonna try to turn you into a jellyfish or like a a deer just chewing leaves staring off into nothing new. Everyone doesn’t need to become an Eckhart Code. You know, I’m just living, not having any any desires beyond what my existence brings in. It’s more so how do we manage life as it is, and how do we find the optimal balance point to where your current reality, which is all that exists, has a nice duality between the yin and the yang of stress and recovery. But how do we also go back and deal with everything that you’ve told yourself that has ever happened to you in the form of a story that has a negative impact on creating the stress response? How do we change the past so you don’t automatically find yourself there in the future? Because as we age, the ability to tolerate those patterns shrinks more and more and more. And I think when someone develops a physical ailment, it’s already a psychological, an emotional, and a spiritual ailment. The body is just the last place it shows up. So it’s been there for a while.

Roland Pankewich [00:42:42]:
We just finally experience it when we can compensate no more.

Nick Urban [00:42:46]:
Gotcha. Well, so how do you work on those other levels then? We talked about the physical a little bit, about the physical diagnostics and assessments. Then do it work on or get a glimpse into the mental, the emotional, the spiritual? How do you do that?

Roland Pankewich [00:43:01]:
Well, that’s, again, very much a personal process. But from a fundamental framework, you take the ability for the person to tell their story as a way to introduce CHEK to the idea of holding space and and feeling safety. What I mean by safety is, like, not a lack of fear of someone bursting into the door with a gun. It’s the scariest thing for many humans is to be open and vulnerable because you’re defenseless there. Right? We have these masks and these armors and shields that we put up, and we project out who we want the world to see us as. But people who are are quite in tune can see who’s really in there, who’s not wanting to come out. And I think a big part of everyone’s healing is simply learning to love themselves. And it starts by just being able to hold space so someone can express.

Roland Pankewich [00:43:53]:
And from the ability to express, they realize, oh, that feels quite good. Maybe I will start to admit the things that I’m most vulnerable about. And then when they go through that process of vulnerability, realizing there’s no judgment, there’s no expectations because things just are. People walk around holding all of these regrets or the the these scenarios of negative relationship with things that have happened, but they’re all just concepts. None of it’s actually real anymore because if it’s not in their here and now, I try to communicate this concept to people so they don’t fear the things that they’re holding that only they can let go. So that’s the next level down, starting to look at how the code and the emotional things are intertwined, and I relate that to what’s going on in their Body. Because if you look at Ayurveda, which you’re talking about India just before this, or you look at traditional Chinese medicine, there is no separation between the physical and the nonphysical. You know? So if someone’s highly fearful, well, that’s a root chakra problem in one, you know, concept.

Roland Pankewich [00:44:55]:
That’s a kidney CHEK problem Mind another. If someone is very grief filled, that’s a heart chakra problem or that’s, you know, a stomach spleen worry scenario. So it’s almost like if you start to show them how all of these things interconnect, you can go, I can give you every supplement for your liver possible, but unless you deal with the anger that’s inside of your system. Mind, you know, funny, I was meditating yesterday, CHEK concept of releasing things. And I had this thing say to me, the only way to release is to let go. And I started giggling. Like, Health freaking simple is that? It’s teaching people that they can be accepted by another, showing the most vulnerable aspects of Health. And once we’ve identified the pattern that created this, how can we rewire it in real time with their leading the way? Meaning, how do you want to live? I can’t tell how someone how to relate to things.

Roland Pankewich [00:45:52]:
I can’t tell them how they should relate to something or what they want to relate to. I say, what do you want to do? Because from a place of being able to be open, to be vulnerable, and to love yourself, the next thing is to be able to take control of your life and and live life on the terms that you’re willing to and wishing to live by. So that’s CHEK it gets down to the the nonphysical aspect. And if someone really needs to, you know, I spent many years doing psychedelic shamanism and guidance for people. If that’s something where they feel like there’s a big block and they’re brave enough and they want it, not anyone forcing it upon them, that might be a path to where someone has, you know, a major milestone in their life break. And then I think after that, people need to take some time to reintegrate because just like you mentioning how do you balance out that work recovery thing. In a health context or a personal wellness development context, there’s times to work Mind then there’s times to just be. Because the whole goal is to be able to live in a state of optimal joy and satisfaction with who you are and what you’re doing as often as possible.

Roland Pankewich [00:47:01]:
Knowing you can’t control every variable outside of yourself, things that will come up as challenges. But if you can wake up every morning being happy to be alive and being grateful and joyful, and you can go to bed every day going, I had a really great day. I’m so happy that I got to do this, and I get to do it again tomorrow. I think that’s a pretty awesome place to be.

Nick Urban [00:47:19]:
Yeah. And so much of what we’re talking about relates back to the idea of yin and yang, work and then just being, stress and then relaxation. Like, it it’s all on the duality of one extreme or not maybe not even too much of an extreme Mind then the opposite pole.

Roland Pankewich [00:47:36]:
Yeah. It’s the concept of polarity. Have you ever read the book The Kybalion?

Nick Urban [00:47:40]:
Yeah. It’s a great book.

Roland Pankewich [00:47:41]:
So that’s one of my my absolute must reads for anyone who wants to dive into this because it’s like the 9 the 9 principles of how to live life in this 3rd dimensional reality. And I love the law of polarity because it asks the question where does hot end and cold begin? It’s one continuum of the opposite thing Mind that’s really what I think one of the most powerful abilities to learn in life is how to balance that. So, like, if you wanna go super hard in life, I. E. You wanna train hard, compete in some sport, be an entrepreneur a high achiever then yes you will need to push hard but if you want long term balance you also need to learn how to be off just as just as equally Mind relaxing with intensity is kind of like URBAN oxymoron. But it’s like when you’re off, you’re off. And it’s that pull Nick Mind the personality addiction to the things that I think people have the hardest time navigating. But you’re absolutely right.

Roland Pankewich [00:48:37]:
The simple principle of the yin and the yang saves everything that we need to know without saying anything of detail in this world.

Nick Urban [00:48:45]:
Off the top of your head, do you remember the other principles that they went through in the Kybalion?

Roland Pankewich [00:48:50]:
Let’s let’s test me right now. So the first one is mental mentalism. The universe is a thought in the mind of God. So if you take that to Mind I think it’s the most powerful one, everything in your world is experienced inside of you. Like, you are my external projection through my brain, through my eyes to see, but you are still my creation, so to speak. So I think the mentalism aspect is super important to understand that everything you think both consciously and subconsciously creates your reality. And it’s a fractal pattern of whatever created this. So you have mentalism, you have polarity, you have cause and effect, you have gender, you have rhythm.

Nick Urban [00:49:31]:
And to go Nick cause and effect, that one I found interesting because it says that there’s a cause and effect behind everything. And it might seem like things just randomly happen in our lives, in the world, and everything. But if you actually understood all the factors, it would be, like, a very obvious this combination of factors coalesced into this outcome over here. It isn’t actually random.

Roland Pankewich [00:49:53]:
Well, I love that the whole concept says chance is a name for a law not not yet understood. Right? So every cause has its effect. Every effect has its cause. And the interconnected web of reality always has a reason as to why things happen, but I think our our human brains lack the ability to rise high enough to see things outside our human centric perspective because our own bias and ego creates symbolism with how we assess things. So I think cause and effect are super powerful because if you are guided by your urges and impulses, then the effect of everything that’s happened to you in your life is caused by something like that. For example, your lack of awareness, your lack of personal vigilance. The same time, your extreme neurosis can be the cause of your hypervigilance and your absolute adherence to never being suboptimal. So either way, you’re playing on the opposite Mind of extremism with those examples, but the rule stays the same.

Nick Urban [00:50:55]:
It’s really helpful. It’s a good read. I’m gonna I need to go back now. I wanna go back and pick it up and give another one. When I read it, I looked around at life and just understood so many of the things and how they worked and why they worked particular ways. It felt like it was like a big burden lifted off my chest.

Roland Pankewich [00:51:12]:
Health. We just missed 1. We missed vibration, which is almost the most important thing because everything in the universe vibrates. Nothing is ever at rest. And on the low end, the lowest vibration is moving the slowest, so it’s so solid. On the high end, things move so fast that they can’t have any physical mass at all. But, eventually, they move so quickly that they appear to be standing still.

Nick Urban [00:51:37]:
Yeah. What’s also very cool about these is that a lot of, like, the modern spirituality is built on these concepts and principles, but I believe the origin of these laws dates back a very long time ago.

Roland Pankewich [00:51:55]:
Oh, well, Hermes Trismegistus, who’s like you know, people think he’s Stoth. He saves various other iterations of demigod who walked the planet. You know, this is before the times of the Egyptians. If you believe in Lemuria and Atlantis, it’s supposedly old world wisdom that survived the test of time. That is a gift for us in modern humanity to try to figure out what it is we are and who we are. So the the no one actually knows how old these things are. No one can even say who the author, the 3 initiates. We don’t know who the authors actually were, but this book has been around forever.

Roland Pankewich [00:52:33]:
And I think at the turn of 1900 that resurfaced shortly thereafter. And I believe those things, again, cause and effect, if society is going through a rapid awakening, there are things that are the impetus or the stimulus of that. And I think everyone listening would benefit from reading The Cobalion probably peptides, not once, not twice, because it’s CHEK kind of book that every time you read it, you get more out of it.

Nick Urban [00:53:00]:
We had a discussion months ago about your stance on pro metabolic health and energy and adaptability. Do you recall that?

Roland Pankewich [00:53:09]:
I remember we spoke about a lot of things, but if you can remind me of the exact details of what we spoke about, I’d love to dig into that because that’s kind of my whole deal nowadays.

Nick Urban [00:53:17]:
Yeah. Okay. So tell me just tell me about that. Tell me about your your whole deal on pro metabolic health and energy and adaptability.

Roland Pankewich [00:53:24]:
Got it. So if we want to be healthy, we have to define what determines health if we’re gonna chase something. Right? So if we’re looking at physiology, the hierarchy of how we’re organized is the smallest unit of biological or physiological existence in us is a single cell. So a cell gathered together in a creative way or a structured way becomes a tissue. A tissue gathered together in a structured way becomes an organ, which then becomes part of an organ system, which becomes part of an organism, which then becomes part of a community. So it’s just this fractal pattern of, like, Russian doll. What does a cell need in order to be healthy every day? It needs oxygen. It needs water.

Roland Pankewich [00:54:15]:
It needs amino acids, fatty acids, glucose, sugars to some degree, and it needs cofactors, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants. So if that’s really what a cell needs, all a cell is wanting to do is be able to perform its work as a cell and thus give birth to a daughter Health. And that’s just the lineage. So when I started to look at that, it made me realize that health is really about energy. So if I want to have healthy metabolism, to me, energy isn’t red bull or coffee or or any kind. That’s a stimulant. It gives you a heightened feeling of awareness through the release of stress hormones, through the adrenal system, the autonomic nervous system. But energy is different than stimulation.

Roland Pankewich [00:55:00]:
Energy is having the ability to do anything you want, be it physical, mental, regardless of your level of fatigue or lack of fatigue. So I started thinking about how can I communicate the concept of what every healthy person seems to have? And energy was my guiding thing. It’s like, if I saves energy, if I can repair myself faster than my injuries accumulate, I’m healthy. If I start to injure myself faster than my ability to repair, I become ill.

Nick Urban [00:55:35]:
And to to be clear, when you say injure yourself, you’re not referring to physical injuries like a slipped disc or a hernia or a a knee injury. You’re talking about cellular injuries.

Roland Pankewich [00:55:44]:
Correct. The physical injuries are preceded by a multitude of cellular injuries, typically inflammatory in nature, that are driven by a few things. 1, excess toxicity of internal or external load. Number 2, excess residency of pro immune things like stimulants, be it bacterial viral infections, again, the toxic load. 3, the inability to properly make energy in the presence of oxygen, so a lack of oxygen delivery because of some sort of circulatory issue, for the lack of ability for a cell to have enough energy to vacate itself of waste materials to the lymphatic system and the the organs of detoxification. So anything that jams up that cell’s ability to make energy creates a sick cell. If I have a sick cell, I have a cell that has a lack of adaptability. So ultimately, the only thing that cell can do to survive is divide prematurely or else it Institute its own internal death.

Roland Pankewich [00:56:41]:
It’s called apoptosis. We take that fractal pattern and make it more organismic. It’s energy and adaptability equals optimal function. And I’ve subcategorized what I think the internal state of optimal function are contingent upon in the body. So the body has to have a sense of self identity. This is like the ultimate lack of self identity as a manifestation of cancer, I believe. A cell thinks it’s no longer part of the ecosystem. The second thing is a sense of self regulation.

Roland Pankewich [00:57:10]:
So if I have type 2 diabetes, I can’t regulate energy metabolism in some way because I’ve broken or Nick So if that cell is unable to properly communicate with itself because its internal environment is compromised or the other cells, in a healthful manner, then any good relationship is broken down by communication. Self compensation is another thing, so you could go back to a physical injury, is a is a is a sprained ankle that swallows up a bad thing. No. If you wanted to heal, but if you take a Tylenol and walk on it, yeah, that’s probably a bad thing. So when we have the inability to compensate is when we have, I believe, arrived at the stage of complex disease diagnosis because injury is a code sorry. Illness is a conscious decision by the body. And the last thing is self regeneration. I long ago realized that as a health practitioner, I don’t heal anybody.

Roland Pankewich [00:58:19]:
They heal themselves. It’s like the supplement you give someone doesn’t provide the healing signal. The supplement gives the body something either that it’s missing or it helps the body remove something that it currently can’t get out so it can go back to expressing health. And this is my model of health because at the end of the day, anything that compromises my adaptability takes away energy. Anything that takes away energy moved me away from optimal function. And on that spectrum, the further I move from optimal function, the closer I am to illness. And whatever the illness is, what it selects for is based upon the person. Your genetic phenotype, your environment, your lifestyle, your mental saves, your biochemical status, you know, vitamin and mineral status, how strong your organs function.

Roland Pankewich [00:59:06]:
But it’s really, I think, all encompassed in that model which I’m continuously evolving because I like figuring out where I’m wrong or will challenge me to make me think I haven’t thought about that yet.

Nick Urban [00:59:17]:
So when you’re actually applying that, say you someone a client presents himself Mind they have an issue, how do you use that framework to guide what you will do with them?

Roland Pankewich [00:59:30]:
That’s a great question. The ultimate reality of how I do that is via the explanation of what I see regarding the introductory assessments that we talked about. Right? So if someone has low level phase angle, if they have cellular dehydration, if they have a high sympathetic dominant, if they have all of the patterns that predispose them to disease. And I also have other technologies that I use. 1 is, an old school electronic acupuncture device. Have you ever seen these before? No. So it’s it’s a practice of German biological medicine called homotoxicology that’s been around for over a 100 years. But through the knowledge of the meridians, each finger and each toe has a meridian that corresponds with an organ.

Roland Pankewich [01:00:17]:
And in biological medicine, there’s a hierarchy of the least important organ in the system is the skin, and the most important I shouldn’t say organ body system. Organ is the skin. The most important organ body system is the immune system. So if you can see the patterns of what’s showing up either inflamed or suppressed, then you can figure out what remedy someone may need to help their body clear out whatever body system is gummed up because the whole idea is you heal in the reverse order that you got sick. You start with the most shallow stuff, and then you start to purge the deep stuff, but that takes a while.

Nick Urban [01:00:52]:
And that’s called German biological medicine?

Roland Pankewich [01:00:55]:
So it is called hom homotoxicology. Technically, it’s a study of how humans get sick, but it’s under the moniker of German biological medicine because they’re looking at codifying the Chinese system by putting a small amount of electric current into the meridian and figuring out its degree of conductivity. And then based upon the degree of conductivity, you can figure out what remedy the body wants rather than go, oh, well, you you’re experiencing you need a parasite detox. Well, you can test all those remedies against someone because the limitation of functional medicine is how do you know what their detoxification capacity is like? How was their lymph working? How was their liver working? What are their kidneys looking like? You can only go so deep based upon biochemical specimen analysis. So, you know, some people would say this stuff is woo woo. It’s just putting a small amount of current through a meridian. And if you read a book called The Ground Matrix by Alfred, Alfred, I’m gonna butcher his last name, Pischinger, I believe, which is written probably, before 1950, he actually studied that meridians on the skin have a different biochemical composition Mind thus electrical conductivity compared to the skin that is not at the terminal end of the meridian. So what you’re doing is you’re testing the ground matrix to see how much congestion is in the extracellular space into the intracellular space, and you’re trying to push it out in the order of operations like bed mass, like solving an equation.

Roland Pankewich [01:02:27]:
That’s one thing I will use if, I look at someone’s state of regulation and I go, man, you’re not in a great state. How do we start to heal you? And I have other combinations of devices I use. And the other device I have, sorry to be really long winded, is, a piece of technology that uses extremely high frequencies to look at the regulation state of the entire human body.

Nick Urban [01:02:51]:
What’s the technology called?

Roland Pankewich [01:02:53]:
The closest technology that it probably exists, from Russia is called the Oberon system, but we call this the it’s just extremely high frequency, the quantum emitter, if you will. And what it does is it’s able to ping a frequency into the body and bounce that frequency off of an organ Mind of like a submarine using sonar, and it is able to give you a state of regulation based upon how a healthy tissue should look from an a vibrational perspective compared to how it does look in that human. And from there, you can figure out if someone has a functional disturbance, something that would show up on a blood panel or a Urban test, what precedes the physical disturbance is an energetic Urban, the vibratory disturbance. So if their regulation state in the subcellular space is less than optimal, you can find a way to drive the healing frequency back in. So you’re reprogramming the body to out of the healing crisis Nick into a healing state.

Nick Urban [01:03:54]:
Is this like a bio resonance machine?

Roland Pankewich [01:03:56]:
Something similar. Far more complex in how it works Mind, very, very accurate because you’re able to look at the different regulation states in different parts of the organs, and you can drill down deeper into the cells. I love technologies. And I have a live blood cell microscope that I haven’t busted out in a while. I think that’s another cool device to look at the before and after of working with someone. Because if you see an internal state change, and this is something we don’t do as as clinicians very often, I think. We don’t see if well, from when the person showed up in the office to when they leave, do they actually look better? You know, we do the things that we do with them. We give them the stuff.

Roland Pankewich [01:04:36]:
Peak expect them to take it when they get home. Why not test it before they leave to make sure with confidence that that person is actually responding well to said thing.

Nick Urban [01:04:47]:
Will the blood reflect that quickly enough?

Roland Pankewich [01:04:51]:
I believe so. Just because the main purpose of the blood is to carry oxygen around the tissues. Right? And if you look at how the cardiovascular system is constructed, it goes from big to small. And the small arterials, the tiny little vessels, in some cases, are probably no bigger in diameter than a single red blood cell thick. So if your red blood cells are stacked on top of each other, and it’s a phenomenon called rouleaux, they look like a stack of coins. The blood isn’t viscous. The blood’s flowing more like syrup, less like water. So what happens there? The small arteries don’t have proper passageway because the physical mass of it trying to fit into them is too large.

Roland Pankewich [01:05:34]:
So if you don’t deliver oxygen to a working cell, what happens to a cell when it doesn’t have aerobic metabolism? What’s plan b? Anaerobic metabolism. So anaerobic metabolism is fermentation, which is the byproduct of the buildup of acids. And it’s a lack of energy because an aerobic energy production, 1 gram of carbohydrate yields 36 ATP or 1 molecule. One molecule of glucose Mind an anaerobic state yield 2 to 4 ATP. So if my Health start to starve out, they bioaccumulate Mind they can’t get things out of EMS. And that’s you know, and this is not a one day thing. We’re talking months years of this is really what I believe create the the initiation and the development to chronic degenerative condition. So what live blood cell does is it shows you the state change of the blood after interventions, and you always want the red blood cells to be optimally formed.

Roland Pankewich [01:06:28]:
You want them to be adequately spaced. You don’t wanna see anything weird in the blood. So, again, it’s it’s it’s probably not universally accepted in the western world, but as a 100 plus year old practiced in different parts of the world where maybe they don’t treat everything with pharmaceuticals, that’s good enough for me.

Nick Urban [01:06:47]:
I’ve seen that technology used most often for evaluating anti non native EMF measures, protection devices, and systems and everything. And then also for grounding and earthing to show that it has an impact on the blood. But when I was looking into a live blood analysis, it seems like the the platform fee or whatever it is is insanely expensive in the US Katalyst.

Roland Pankewich [01:07:13]:
In the sense of, like, utilizing it or getting in and getting involved as a practitioner?

Nick Urban [01:07:18]:
Yeah. Getting involved as a practitioner. That was one of the things that I’ve read is preventing a larger scale rollout.

Roland Pankewich [01:07:26]:
I think so. I mean, microscopes aren’t cheap. A good microscope is probably 3 to $5,000. But once you have them, I think all you need is the slide, but you have to find a place to properly train. And there’s a cool place, like, Quantum University has a course, but you can also meet people who do it. And I’m sure there may be someone who can do private coaching or something of that nature. But there’s a large intimidation factor because, like anything, there’s knowing how to do it, then there’s developing proficiency as a skilled Practitioner, and the only way you can do that is by pricking tons of fingers.

Nick Urban [01:08:00]:
Yeah. I think it was because, like, the the technology was like, there’s, like, a royalty or patent or some Mind of weird thing where someone told me that the startup cost was, like, $400 in the US.

Roland Pankewich [01:08:12]:
I’ve never heard that. I mean, I bought a microscope, and I had no no specific massive nadirskirted around something, but I don’t believe so. Because because the live blood cell basically, what it is, the microscope, it’s got a high powered slide or high powered, magnifying glass of different degrees of Optimization, and you just take a a finger prick of blood, put it between 2 glass slides, and slide it under the

Nick Urban [01:08:35]:
So you also mentioned last time we talked that you were up to some things on the longevity side.

Roland Pankewich [01:08:42]:
Yeah. I’m always looking at what creates the the optimal combinations of variables to longevity. Because for me, longevity Mind lifespan is something different than health span. You know, I don’t wanna be a 100 with someone changing my diaper or living in a wheelchair. I would like to I’d rather get to 85, and you know what? I went rock climbing a week ago, and my time to egg I think the single most powerful tool when it comes to longevity is not anything that we’ve yet discussed, but it’s exercise and movement in addition to state of mind. Because if you believe that, you know, life is abundant and wonderful and various things, you will likely continue to live a life that attracts those things. But if we’re talking about the physical aspects to what influences us, the one thing that seems to affect all things that we’ve talked about positively is exercise and movement. Because moving your muscles and moving energy through the system is always going to help to fortify things like metabolic function, mitochondrial function, blood flow, removal of toxic waste materials, things of that nature.

Roland Pankewich [01:09:53]:
So then we go into, like, what kind of exercise is optimal? So what typically happens as we get old? We lose all of our characteristics of youth and athleticism. Power and speed, springiness, you know, the ability for our tendons and ligaments to be, deforming and recoiling energy, ultimate strength, coordination, balance, and ultimately v o two max endurance. So what I’m looking at now, you know, having been someone who performed at a high level physically, there’s definitely a difference at 38 Mind 21 when it comes to what you can do and how quickly you recover. But how can you keep these variables on some degree of improvement or or or increase over time to the point where, let’s say, someone’s 70 years old and they’re as fit as they were at 60. There’s a point to where maintenance saves progressed. So for me, from an exercise perspective, you know, zone 2 cardio, doing some degree of zone 5 short burst stuff, focusing on making sure that you have adequate range of motion and mobility, which is super important for men. Guys tighten up through the hips more than anything. So making sure that you’re taking not only your muscles, but your ligaments, your connective tissue, your joint to passive ranges of motion that you have yet to experience and developing active strength to control those extreme ranges.

Roland Pankewich [01:11:19]:
It’s what I see every old athlete who resist injury does really Health. And the ability to keep your, you know, VO 2 max up via zone 2 and various other cardio training zone ultimately helps that delivery of oxygen to working tissues, the ability to upregulate total metabolic energy because the muscle is technically our largest metabolically active organ. And the more of it we have, the more it’s able to dispose of glucose in our bloodstreams, the more it’s able to generate muscle protein synthesis. As we get older, You know, getting old, being frail Mind weak is dangerous. That’s you know, sarcopenia is a serious driver of mortality in people. So, you know, in the longevity aspect of things, I know a lot of people are into caloric restriction and fasting and various things of that nature. I actually think that if you go too deep into that, you start to induce too many catabolic processes in the system because the body wants to move. The body needs to be stimulated and stressed because it also regulates how our nervous system controls our tissues.

Nick Urban [01:12:24]:
And cortisol is Nick extremely catabolic hormone. It breaks down the tissue of a lot of the places you don’t wanna break down tissues such as even the brain. And so if you’re getting cortisol dysregulation from over fasting as was, I guess, more prevalent couple years ago when it was all the craze, it seems to have died down a little bit. Then you’re gonna set up your body to down bioregulators thyroid Mind which slows down your metabolism Mind the whole cascade of negative effects. And even if it does improve your lifespan, it won’t necessarily improve your health span if you’re becoming sarcopenic and frail. Not necessarily gonna be a trade off that most people pursuing longevity ultimately wanna make.

Roland Pankewich [01:13:09]:
You brought up something so brilliant that’s worth mentioning. So many people feel so good when they’re fasting because cortisol is euphoric. Adrenaline is euphoric, and they’re like, oh, man. My ketones are so high. I feel so focused. I’m like, no. That’s a that’s a stress response, actually. And the problem with that is not only is is cortisol all the things you mentioned, it shrinks the hippocampus.

Roland Pankewich [01:13:32]:
So things like short term memory and long term memory consolidation become compromised. Cortisol, reduces the elastic properties of of certain tissues, so their their ability to deform and and deal with physical stresses are bioregulators. And I think it was put cortisol is the hormone of aging. I think the reason people get fasting wrong is they try to be more productive when fasting. It’s like, no. No. You’re sending the wrong message. If you’re fasting, you should chill.

Roland Pankewich [01:13:59]:
You wanna recruit as much parasympathetic activity as possible so your system isn’t needing that cortisol response to regulate blood sugar levels and start to break down muscle tissue. If we’re talking about therapeutic fasting, it’s a whole different conversation. But the the biohackers, I’m only gonna eat once a day. I’m gonna be, like, at the top of my game all the time. It’s not an optimal recipe for what they think they’re chasing because it bioregulators hormone signaling, ultimate hormone production, as you said, down bioregulators of thyroid function, lowering your metabolism, predisposition to be getting body fat. It all follows the trend, but it happens over months. It’s not the one time.

Nick Urban [01:14:40]:
Yeah. Well, let’s go on to some of the effective things you found in the fitness realm for longevity or just general fitness that are beyond the just normal VO 2 max and building strength and mobility. Anything that you found that really moves the needle?

Roland Pankewich [01:14:57]:
You know, one thing that I’ve I’ve realized is developing, a more acute sense of body awareness with exercises that let’s say let’s use classic Body as an example. Right? So they’re great for stimulating muscle hypertrophy, which is a wonderful thing. But there is, the ability to develop strength within muscle without necessarily equalizing strength within connective tissue. So one thing that I found to be very beneficial is using things like basic calisthenics or getting into some flow exercises that not only recruit connective tissue and require stronger connective tissue in addition to stronger muscles, but they develop this body awareness of positional integrity and strength, but they also allow you to manipulate and move your body in a way that makes you more resilient and bulletproof in my opinion. The other thing that I think they do is they teach you the to be explosive without necessarily having that explosive load outside of you. You know? So, like, a power clean or a power snatch for the average person or a box jump is a high risk exercise if they have not developed that as they go. But as you learn to do some of these basic movements where you’re stable and supported and you start to increase the speed of your movement, I think that’s a wonderful thing. Another wonderful exercise that most people don’t do after the age of 30 is sprinting.

Roland Pankewich [01:16:23]:
I think the average person, if they build themselves into it, regains a lot of, physical capability with including something like sprinting and calisthenics in, because the one secret I don’t know if it’s a secret, but the one thing they bring back in is an element of fun. There’s an element of creativity. There’s an element of, like, usefulness that on the subconscious level takes you back to something that is not just, oh, I gotta go do my 3 sets of 12, bench press and lat pull down. So I think those things are absolutely wonderful. I I would say that simply being as active as you can walking, and if you live in a climate that allows for it, which most do right now, walk barefoot. You know, get movement while being in touch with the Health. There’s a compounding effect there. Because if we live most of our lives either with rubber soles covering our feet or we’re inside with our feet never touching the ground, the Earth has a pulse.

Roland Pankewich [01:17:17]:
It’s got a I think it’s 9.83 Hertz called the Schumann Performance, and the Health is slightly negatively charged. It’s electron rich. Our bodies mirror that because we are our own little microcosm walking the Earth. So a lot of the benefits that come from exercising Outliyr, being in touch with the earth, not only do they add to the physical development characteristics that allow us to age optimally and resist injury and degradation, but there’s just a health effect by getting in touch with the Health Mind being outside, getting fresh air Mind getting sunlight that I think they don’t add to exercise. It’s like adding a multiplication to exercise. So that that’s one thing that society doesn’t promote or suggest nowadays. And and if people can find space for that in their exercise routine, it’s so beneficial.

Nick Urban [01:18:07]:
The other side of that is we’ve been conditioned that movement should be exercise, and it should be expending more energy than we’re receiving from it. And Paul CHEK has a concept he calls working in where it’s the opposite. Instead of activating our sympathetic nervous system, we’re activating our parasympathetic. And there’s these are gentle restorative movements like Tai Chi and Qigong. And for someone who’s already stressed and perhaps doing long bouts of fasting, parasympathetic dominant exercises can be much more restorative and energizing and beneficial to the body than just doing another intense sprinting and power cleans and full on resistance program where they’re also sprinting or running to the gym and try and train VO 2 max at the same time.

Roland Pankewich [01:18:59]:
Well, do you not find it interesting that what you said comes back to the example of the the Mind and the yang. Right? The balance. Like, I can’t escape it in my life no matter what I try to look at and disprove it being conserved by that concept. Like, within the physical realm, that’s a beautiful explanation because the sympathetically driven stuff hopefully gives rise to a nice parasympathetic response. But you also want a sympathetic response where you have the ability to slow everything down so you can put your foot on that gas pedal when required. Things like Qigong and Tai Chi make us better at the exercise, the externally focused things we do called exercises when we perform them because our bodies are more resilient and more ready to deal with the physical rigors of what that exercise provides or, I should say, demands of us.

Nick Urban [01:19:53]:
Well, Roland, we’ll start to wind this one down because we’ve already been going for a while. But before we get to the final questions, I would love to know some of the biohacks that are popular today that you like or dislike.

Roland Pankewich [01:20:06]:
There are things that I think should be contextually, categorized. An example, everyone nowadays is jumping into a cold plunge. I think cold plunge has value. But if you take someone who is, in the state of regulation that we assumed and discussed in the beginning, you can stress them to the point where you’re furthering their disparity into a state of recovery. I’ve had athlete who, I had them do a chest strap heart rate variability assessment after a cold plunge, and they’ve swapped their nervous system regulation state to where they’re more parasympathetic standing up and more sympathetic lying down. So that amount of stress under the wrong condition can be actually I don’t wanna say detrimental, but highly stressful to the body. And when someone is trying to find the off switch, the reason that cold plungers are so exhilarating for people is because they induce that catecholamine response that people love and that feels good, but just because it feels good, you might not wanna do it. You know, insert inappropriate joke here.

Roland Pankewich [01:21:08]:
But that that’s one I do like, and I think the other thing is true when it comes to, you know, high dose infrared saunas and various other things. Just because someone does something and they get benefit, it doesn’t mean you’re automatically going to do the same or receive the same. I think it’s very it’s very appropriate to contextualize where you are in life Mind what it is you’re seeking this thing for to figure out if it’s the right tool for you. I’d say one other thing that I, I don’t dislike it, but I think it’s important to communicate. A lot of people who like to to self quantify with tracking things, they’ll compare their HRV with other people’s HRV. Nick, who has a better thumbprint? Me or you?

Nick Urban [01:21:52]:
I think you in this case.

Roland Pankewich [01:21:54]:
Okay. Well, fair enough. I would say it’s a stupid question, but I appreciate you giving me the little validation there. But it it’s as valuable as asking that question. Right? Each one is unique. So if my Oura ring says 56 and your Oura ring says 42, there’s no comparing us. But the the one with 56 feel better about their life, the one with 42 feel worse. So anything that’s a biohack or a bio track, understand To make

Nick Urban [01:22:29]:
To make that last one even worse, I’ve noticed that when I’m really pushing it hard and I’m overtraining, under recovering, I usually am, like, sympathetically dominant, so I have a HRV below a 100 milliseconds by most algorithms. But then if I’m, like, getting out of balance even further, I’ll I’ll flip and become parasympathetically dominant. And my HRV, even though I’m not sleeping as much, I’m overtraining, unrecovering,

Roland Pankewich [01:22:52]:
it’ll jump

Nick Urban [01:22:53]:
up to, like, 120, 130, and it’ll stay there until I get enough sleep. And I tone it back a bit, and then it’ll come back down into a higher a higher level, but still within my normal range. So even if you see a higher number without context, even with HRV, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a good thing.

Roland Pankewich [01:23:12]:
You see what the body tries to do. Right? The body tries to let you know what it wants you to do in order to find your homeostasis again. So higher HRV in a code in the context of being exhausted is because your body is trying to make you parasympathetic so you can heal and recover. And this is unfortunately what’s not necessarily understood by a lot of people because why would they wanna go and figure these things out if it’s not their vocation? It’s very much personal dedication that allow you to understand the so I’m glad you said that. That’s a very wise thing.

Nick Urban [01:23:45]:
Alright, Roland. If people wanna connect with you, how do they get a Health of you?

Roland Pankewich [01:23:49]:
Oh, god. I, like, dread being asked this question because I don’t have anything. I don’t have any social media. I currently don’t have a website. I mean, if they wanna reach out to you and you can get in touch with me for the moment, that’s totally cool. I am in the process of getting things established. I’ve enjoyed kind of being able to hide from from society for a while only because it gave me a chance to learn all this stuff without the distraction or the the necessity of having to maintain a platform. I think it’s time that I I started one just because I would like to share what I’ve learned and the the skills that I have been taught and developed with other people so that if they want to use them and learn them to help other people, that’s the ultimate goal.

Nick Urban [01:24:31]:
Yeah. And once you have a website or something developed, any communication channels, I will put those in the show notes for this episode too.

Roland Pankewich [01:24:39]:
Thank you very much.

Nick Urban [01:24:41]:
And there’s also usually a disparity between, like, the best people who are in their field on the front lines trying to master their craft and hunt out new information. They’re not able to also be the best marketer time. And if you try and do both Mind you go down the middle and you don’t do either of them very well.

Roland Pankewich [01:25:00]:
No. I’ve learned that, people pay you for your strengths. And if you can delegate your weaknesses or at least find assistance, which I I’m in the process of doing because I’m not a social media technology and I don’t get along because I’ve chosen that relationship. But if I can have someone there to support me through that, it allows me to do what I feel much more comfortable and skillful and it allows me to do what I feel much more comfortable and skillful in doing.

Nick Urban [01:25:22]:
Alright, Roland. If there was a worldwide burning of the books and all knowledge was lost, but you get to save the works of 3 teachers, 3 books, 3 podcasts, 3 interviews, you name it, what would you choose and why?

Roland Pankewich [01:25:35]:
That is a really interesting question. So I’d have to put the cabalion in there for obvious reasons. We talked about it in-depth. There’s a book by Richard Bach named or called Illusions Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah. It’s a very short, easy read. I think it was written in the eighties. I’ve probably read that book 13 times because I feel like it’s, a fun handbook for navigating the world through philosophy and metaphor. There is a gentleman by the name of Ishak Bentov, and he was unfortunately killed in a plane crash and I believe the either late seventies or early eighties.

Roland Pankewich [01:26:13]:
And he wrote a book called Stalking the Wild Pendulum. That book made bridging the gap between the spiritual and the physical realms more fun, enjoyable, and simplistic. And I think if anyone wants to start being able to understand the nature of where the atomic and the subatomic worlds collide, that’s one of the best books I’ve ever written, because it’s written for someone who’s not a scientist. I think he was actually ostracized and and ridiculed, you know, for what it is he does. And, there’s a gentleman who his name I mentioned, Nick Schauberger. If anyone wants to figure out how a brilliant mind can escape the the CHEK confines and the restrictions of academia and do more than any human with no formal education, watch his documentary.

Nick Urban [01:27:06]:
I have one one last question for you before we part ways today. What is one thing that your tribe does not know about you?

Roland Pankewich [01:27:13]:
One thing my tribe does not know about me. I love that you asked me this question that allows me to talk about something that I don’t often do. Years ago, when I did my first Ayahuasca experience, I had this shift in my reality where things started to open up Mind I was able to tap into things that I thought were absolute bullshit before. So this concept of psychic phenomenon became part of my normal life. So a lot of the work I do with people when I’m helping them through things is I do a lot of what I would call shamanic style work of taking them back in time, regression. I get downloads of things with people. I I get little symbolisms of a lot of the people I work with in dreams. So, you know, I’ve always been this scientifically, minded or this perceived scientific person to to which I am.

Roland Pankewich [01:28:08]:
But most of my reality now is, operated by feel. I’ve gotten out of the mind as much, and I try to get more into the heart. I try to use more intuition than I do logic Mind when you can get to the point Robert Edward Grant is someone I love who who said this When the heart thinks and the mind feels, you open up this Pandora’s box of what you can perceive in terms of your own reality and the expansion of your own consciousness. And every human on the planet has the potential for it to happen. You know, I think it finds you at different times when your soul is ready. But my tribe doesn’t really know that, you know, that’s a world I spend a lot of time in, not only in in working with people, but in my day to day existence. You know, you communicate with the universe in your relationship with it in universal language. So that would be kind of like my my thing.

Roland Pankewich [01:29:00]:
My admittance is, I’m a right brain bright brained individual living in a a left brain perceived world of science and logic.

Nick Urban [01:29:10]:
Oh, very cool. And that so you were not living that way until your Ayahuasca experience experiences

Roland Pankewich [01:29:16]:
I was denying my true nature because I thought I needed to be a different version of myself, and that version of myself was not encouraged and nurtured as a young child and as an adolescent. So I shut it off Mind I became ignorant to the innate style that I had. And I tried to force something that was more what I thought would bring me acceptance of reality, which is just of acceptance of self. But since I’ve gone, you know, I’m old enough to the point where I don’t give a shit anymore. I’m just gonna be me as the expressed personality that I am. And that is something that is still fairly new to me in a way to communicate it to someone else.

Nick Urban [01:29:55]:
Well, that’s a good way to wrap this up, but we’ve covered a lot of ground together today. Are there any final thoughts that you wanna leave listeners with?

Roland Pankewich [01:30:03]:
Know that where you are in your journey is perfectly okay for you. And it’s a very cliche thing, but we don’t see how things organize themselves until hindsight is available to us. So understand that, you know, words are symbolic sounds with meanings we ascribe to them. So whatever challenges that you’re having in your life, know that you Mind up for it. You didn’t necessarily consciously orchestrate it, but it is something that has been brought into your world for you to grow and expand and become a better version of yourself. That’s the last thing I’d love to leave people with.

Nick Urban [01:30:37]:
Perfect. Well, this has been a blast. I’m so glad that we were finally able to coordinate schedules and record today.

Roland Pankewich [01:30:44]:
Likewise, Nick. Thank you for being persistent. Thank you for the time, that that you’re taking for this interview, and thank you for the work that you’re doing.

Nick Urban [01:30:52]:
Thank you. Alright. Take care, Roland. You too, buddy. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. Head over to Apple Music, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts Mind leave a rating. Every review helps me bring you thought provoking guests. As always, you can find the show notes for this one at mindbodypeak.com/ and then the number of the episode.

Nick Urban [01:31:20]:
There, you can also chat with other peak performers or connect with me directly. The information depicted in this podcast is for information purposes only. Please consult your primary health care professional before making any lifestyle changes.