In this episode of Mind Body Peak Performance the healing benefits of light therapy are uncovered with Nick Urban and Scott Kennedy, founder of Lightpath LED. They reveal how different wavelengths of light can be used to enhance performance, reduce inflammation, pain, and pill free, dramatically improving overall health. They share how we can optimize our body’s natural healing capacities through the use of light therapy.
Episode HighlightsLight gets absorbed by our cells and helps create ATP. This ATP is 90% of the energy our bodies need to function daily. – Scott Kennedy Click To TweetOur bodies adapt to stress, gradually increasing our resilience. That's why it's essential to incorporate multiple stressors into our daily routines like light therapy to build strength and capacity. Click To TweetRed light therapy is a game-changer! It's not just about feeling good, it actually improves mood, reduces inflammation in the brain, and promotes vasodilation to help drain toxic substances. Click To Tweet
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About Scott Kennedy
Scott Kennedy a light specialist and health coach founded Lightpath LED in 2018, creating the best home-use panels on the market. He created the first light therapy wellness center in New Jersey after his own healing crisis. The light therapy, dramatically reduced his symptoms by over 80%, and is now running and boxing. His passion is to help others get back to doing what they love, without pain or pills.
Top things you’ll learn from Scott Kennedy
- How red light therapy improves mood, reduces inflammation, and balances hormone levels
- Promotes vasodilation, which helps drain toxic substances from the brain
- Balances hormone levels and helps with issues like low testosterone, erectile dysfunction, cramping, and infertility
- Specific wavelengths of light get absorbed in the body and increase ATP energy production
- Increases oxygen levels so you can exercise more
- Pulsing in light therapy allows tissue relaxation
- The use of Methylene blue alongside light therapy
- Methylene Blue is a substance that can be used topically, ingested, or administered through IV
- Methylene Blue is photosensitive and can penetrate deeper into the tissue under a red lightpath
- What is hormesis and how it helps our body become resilient to stress
- Hormesis refers to acute stressors on the body that make it stronger
- Acute stressors include red lightpath, infrared sauna, cold plunges, exercise, breath work, and fasting
- Acute stress triggers the release of reactive oxygen species, which signal mitochondria to produce more ATP energy
- The best sources of light therapy
- Red light and near-infrared light combined have a maximum impact on healing in the body
- Some high-powered light therapy devices may not be ideal because the body doesn’t require lot of power all at once
- Different issues require light therapy treatments
- Debunk misconceptions about light therapy and what are the key factors to consider when using light therapy devices
- Gear: LightpathLED Pulsed Red Light Therapy Panels (use code URBAN to save 10%)
- Teacher: Dr. Nelson Marquina, Kay Aubrey-Chimene, (Photopuncture)
Nick Urban [00:00:00]:
I’m always looking around for the therapeutics CHEK health, modalities, and things we can do that have the greatest possible effects and benefits and the fewest side effects. Today’s episode, I’m looking forward to sharing everything you need to know about light therapy, and not just your average house lightpath the sunlight or even red light therapy. But everything you need to know about how the different parameters you can tweak the type of light, the color of the spectrum, the rate at which it flickers, if it flickers at all, how these all impact your health, your performance in your Bioharmony. I’m your host, Nick Urban. Thanks for tuning in to the Mindbody Peak Performance podcast. Sharing this knowledge with us today is Scott Kennedy. Scott is a certified laser and light specialist, and a health coach. In 2018, he started the 1st lightpath therapy wellness center, in New Jersey, where he met all kinds of clients from many different walks of life. As you’ll hear in this episode, Scott’s own journey began about 10 years ago CHEK he went from being in the peak of his shape, running ultra marathons, and boxing to being completely sedentary. He began researching the power of light and started implementing it into his own life. Within about 4 months, his symptoms decreased over 80%. He’s now back to doing all the things that he once did, And because of his own personal experience, Scott is now helping others get back to what they enjoy doing in life without pain and without pills. That’s why he started his company Lightpath LED, which creates some of the best light therapy panels on a market, and at a consumer friendly price. As you’ll learn in this episode, his panels are both more affordable, and they are also the most feature packed of any I’ve come across. I got mine several months ago, in May of 2023, and it’s been a staple in my routine ever since. The show notes to this episode will be at mindbodypeak.com, slash, and then the number 115. There you’ll find all the resources and links to the things we mentioned in this episode. If you wanna try some LightPath products self, Scott also hooked us up with a special. So if you use the code Urban on CHEK, that will unlock you a special discount on all the Lightpath LED products. Without further ado, sit back, relax, and enjoy this conversation on all things light with Scott Kennedy.
Nick Urban [00:02:44]:
Scott Kennedy. Welcome to Mindbody Peak Performance.
Scott Kennedy [00:02:48]
Alright. Thanks so much, Nick.
Nick Urban [00:02:50]:
I’ve been looking forward to this one because Lite is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart. I first talked about lightpath therapy on the podcast back a while ago, a couple years ago on episode number 5. And then on the near infrared spectrum more recently in I think it was episode number 101. So we will pick up the conversation today and talk about both red light therapy and light in general and some of your background and how you got into this whole industry. Sure.
Scott Kennedy [00:03:21]
You know, I started back in the in the dental field years ago in the military. And then when I got out, I got into doing dental hygiene. And then after I’ve, you know, dealt with so many back CHEK wrist pains from repetitive work, I started doing more sales and training. So I was working with a laser company. So very high powered you know, $90,000 laser that would cut teeth instead of a drill. It would cut soft tissue instead of a scalpel. We’d use it for root canals. We’d use it for extractions. But the same laser that if I took and I put right here, you know, I sizzle a hole right through the cheek. If I pulled it back, disbursed the energy over a larger area, we were seeing dramatic improvements in people with TMJ Ish issues that could barely open 3 minutes on either side and just a giant difference. So whether it was that or how the laser was treating herpedic lesions or stimulating the the lymphatics, the lymph nodes, You know, we had a handful of doctors who really thought outside the box. So they were using it for, you know, their father who had, you know, shingles coming down. or their kid that had a sprained ankle or their wife that had an infection. So you know, there’s no school for light therapy. So I had to read a a a, you know, the research out there, which there’s thousands of And then I had to, you know, find a few mentors, people that have been in the field, Doctor Nelson Martinez, who’s down in Virginia, who’s been in a physicist, an a chiropractor. So he’s been doing lasers for 50 years. k out in Arizona who’s been doing photo by a modulation for 20, 30 years. So those are the people that I’ve really leaned on and taken their courses. And, you know, my knowledge is a fraction of of what they have
Nick Urban [00:05:27]:
But that’s really how I’ve gotten my starts. So I wanna dig into that some more. You’ve already mentioned something that I don’t usually differentiate and that is the difference between light and lasers. But before we get into that side of things, first, what are the unusual or nonnegotiables you’ve done so far today? for your health, your performance, and your Bioharmony.
Scott Kennedy [00:05:50]:
Oh gosh. I haven’t done anything for my health today. So what what I’ve got planned today is usually, like, in the evenings, I’ll I’ll do my infrared sauna, which I love. Mhmm. Most of the time in the morning, I get to my light. This morning was just a little bit too crazy. I also own a campground. So There’s a lot of work to be done outside. So my you know, my go to our breathwork. I love my Wim Hof. I love doing my light in the morning. I love if I’ve got time to do my infrared sauna in the evening. And then the things I just need to work on is my diet. You know, my vices are the sugars and the carbs, and I tell you they are tough to resist.
Nick Urban [00:06:41]:
Well, we’ll unpack some of that in a bit. But first, what is the difference between light and lasers? Can you give us some background on what you’re talking about here? Yeah. So
Scott Kennedy [00:06:52]:
we started photobiomodulation, also known as low level light or low level laser therapy, LLt. It started with lasers back in the late sixties. So all the studies from, you know, starting back in 1968, all the way until about, you know, somewhere in the eighties and nineties. It was all focused on laser. There was this thought that Only lasers were gonna be effective and LEDs were not. So a laser we we know a laser We understand how they work, but what’s most important is the wavelength that they produce. So whether that wavelength, whether it’s in that red 600 to 700, whether it’s in that near infrared, 800 and to about 1100, 1200, whether that’s coming from a laser or an LED, meaning light emitting diode really doesn’t matter. Lightpath differences, very slight. But as long as we’ve got the same wavelength, we’ve got similar power. We even can talk about, you know, similar pulsing. They’re gonna act very similar. So the great majority of I’m not gonna say great majority, but a good percentage of the research that’s been done in the last 20 years are focusing on LED. And that’s because it’s affordable where lasers are very expensive. It it’s safer where you’re not going to burn yourself like you potentially could with a higher powered laser, and we can put it in something like really big, like, behind me so you can get the entire body where a laser is always gonna be very spot treatment. So, you know, I can put it here for a shoulder. I can put it here, but it’s not gonna cover the entire area.
Nick Urban [00:08:51]:
Yeah. Okay. And that’s what the commonly mentioned what is it? Beam angle? Is that what it’s called? What you look for in panels to see, like, how concentrated
Scott Kennedy [00:09:02]:
the light is? Yeah. So the beam angle is gonna be how focused. So if you were to take your normal flashlight and go outside, you know if it’s if it’s a really focused beam angle, it’s gonna go far, but it’s gonna keep a smaller spot size. If you have a a a flashlight that can disperse you know, more like 60 or 90 degrees. That may be good if you’re if you need a big picture, but you’re not trying to to focus the light as far away. So a beam angle just means that if I’m if I’m away from that panel,
Nick Urban [00:09:36]:
more of that light is gonna be focused in on me as opposed to to the sides. Okay. That makes sense. How does it work in the body? I know there’s a lot of talk about mitochondria and cytochrome c oxidase. Are there any, like, easy to understand mechanisms behind light and specifically red light that you find to be the most interesting or important to cover?
Scott Kennedy [00:09:58]:
Yeah. The problem is none of it’s easy. And and so it’s it’s a matter of, you know, when I’m reading research, I can read the abstract. I can read the methods. I can read the results. I can I can read some of the, you know, how they got to that point. But, you know, the scientists like to outdo the other scientists and throw in a lot of big words. So — Yeah. — you gotta break it down to understand actually what’s going on. If I were to really simplify it, if we think about photosynthesis with plants, plants take in light. That is their energy. From there, it’ll act almost the same as it does in our bodies. So our body takes in light, whether it’s sunlight, which we know is extremely helpful, healthy for us, or we we find the specific wavelengths of light from sunlight that are are really positive to the body And we exclude some of the, you know, UV that’s not so good for us in larger quantities. So we find those specific wavelengths. So we’re talking about red, near infrared, even blue certain times for acne or seasonal affective disorder. That light gets absorbed by our cells. Our cells then just it’s like a kick start. It gets them to produce more ATP energy, which is it’s simply put, it’s 90 percent of the energy that our bodies need daily. So that’s really all it’s doing. it does one thing, but it does it really, really well. And from there, the body can do you know, that cascade of of effects, whether that’s balancing hormones, reducing inflammation, increasing blood flow, increasing oxygen. You know? A list goes on and on, but all we’re really doing is getting the body to do what it should be doing if we didn’t have all the stress in the world, all the toxicities in the air, all the poor diets, you know, lack of exercise,
Nick Urban [00:12:08]:
all those things. And what you’ve mentioned about increasing cellular energy that might seem like a small thing. And if you already have plenty of physical or mental energy, it’s less necessary. But the way I like to think about it is if the body is in in biosynergy deficit, a cellular energy deficit, it must choose which bodily systems and processes to throttle to reduce their efficacy. And that can result in hampering your immune system, suboptimal hormones, reducing cognition, all kinds of things. So by making sure the body has ample energy, then you’re giving it the ability to have all systems running ultimately. Okay. So that’s a brief rundown on how it works. Have you come across the research? I think it was by Arturo Hanes that was showing humans are what is what is it? Photo heteroautotrophs, meaning we can absorb a certain percentage of our caloric needs, our energetic needs, from the sun from the sun alone if we get ample pigments and vegetables and things like that into our diet.
Scott Kennedy [00:13:15]:
Yeah. No. I haven’t.
Nick Urban [00:13:17]:
It’s pretty interesting. though. Yeah. So it underscores the need for light in our days and lifestyles And people might look at red light therapy specifically and say, okay. This isn’t natural. You wouldn’t actually get concentrated red light like this. Why is it necessary if we’re not actually getting that concentrated red light in nature?
Scott Kennedy [00:13:38]:
So if you think about, like, I I’m in a northern climate. So 6, 7 months out of the year, it’s cold. not only that, but, you know, I’m I’m inhibited from being able to walk outside naked. You know? Neighbors are gonna call. There’s gonna be a problem with it. So I love the sunlight. I tell people get out particularly get that morning sunlight in that, you know, a good 20, 30 minutes before 10 o’clock is so healthy for you. But we live in in a world where a lot of times, that’s just not possible either because of where we’re located in the What time of year it is? Obviously, our work schedule and so on. So like a lot of things, it’s we we find ways of hacking. So whether that’s, you know, doing breathwork, breath hold, whether that’s doing fasting, whether that’s doing infrared saunas, whether that’s doing light. We’re we’re hacking because that’s not the way we have normally been, but our cells are still way back with our ancestors when it was good for us to push ourselves with acute stresses, whether that was cold water or breath holding to get down to the bottom where the food was or going 2 or 3 days without any food. You know? So we’re we’re we’re away from that, but our cells are still, you know, stuck way back there. So CHEK we talk about getting light from LEDs or from lasers, We’re focusing on those specific wavelengths, and we’re focusing on a reasonable power that the body can still absorb, can still process, and we get all the benefits from that even though it’s gonna be more
Nick Urban [00:15:44]:
powerful than those specific rays that we’re getting from the sunlight. Yeah. And I wanna challenge you to reframe it as hacking and instead Biohacking at looking at getting the adequate light that we require as Bioharmony, really working with our biology to meet its necessities.
Scott Kennedy [00:16:01]:
Yeah. I like that word better. Yeah.
Nick Urban [00:16:04]:
Okay. So that’s a a brief overview of how it works. And then a lot of the panels and devices I’ve seen on the market are fairly similar. just basically advertising different power outputs. There’s ERadians as they call it. And one thing that I liked about years when I got my hands on a panel is that you incorporate multiple wavelengths and also pulsation. Why did you choose to add both of those features?
Scott Kennedy [00:16:30]:
So we we you brought up Iradians as the power of it. Unfortunately, unfortunately, in our culture, you know, powers everything. You know? So marketing has somehow taken over with power. Like, we’ve got the most power out there. and that’s not really what the body wants. The body does not want a whole lot of power at once. The the body likes a a relatively specific amount of power over a longer period of time. There’s always with with any kind of product, particularly ones that aren’t you know, they’re not obvious to people when we talk about parameters because we don’t know enough about The average person doesn’t know enough about light to go, oh, no. That’s BS. Oh, no. That’s what I want. You know? So marketing can unfortunately dictate people’s buying habits. I focus on science, science really leads me to to to change what I’m doing. So let’s just say my my previous model panel had 5 wavelengths, 2 in the red, 3 in the near infrared. Enough research came out that said 810 wavelength penetrates the deepest. I said there’s no reason for me to have 2 other near infrared wavelengths let’s just focus on the 810. With the red, it’s a little bit of different absorption So we were talking the lower 600 that absorbs less than, say, the higher 600. So I wanted to cover both of those bases. So I focused on 2 wavelengths in the red, one in the near infrared. So, again, we talk about marketing, you know, razors started off with one blade, 2 blades, 3 blades, 4 blades. I don’t know if we’re you know, you could probably buy a razor now with 20 blades. It gets to the point where it’s just a little bit It’s a little bit ridiculous. So science is what led me to go with that. As far as pulsing
Nick Urban [00:18:40]:
Wait before you go on. Yeah. Is that because, like, when you have multiple different frequencies or wavelengths of red light, you are getting, like, a synergistic effect out of them?
Scott Kennedy [00:18:50]:
CHEK when you are doing red and near infrared at the same time, what is what’s really fascinating is near infrared will penetrate a much deeper into the body. So red is just below skin because it gets absorbed in the blood. where near for red gets absorbed much further in, you know, we’re talking 1, 2 inches. The red will piggyback on the near infrared and get pulled deeper into the body. Oh. So that’s really and so what whether whether a company is doing red and near infrared together, you know, I a lot of times, I don’t know if they’re cognizant of that fact that that’s occurring. but we know red is good for superficial. Near it for red is good for deeper issues, bone, brain, organs, lymphatics, joints, cartilage, on and on, those are the 2 most penetrating wavelengths. So best to combine them.
Nick Urban [00:19:51]:
Okay. And beginners question, but can you explain why we want to actually penetrate deeper into the body with light?
Scott Kennedy [00:20:00]:
Yeah. The more cells we get, the better. So there there’s a systemic effect that we get with light. So let’s say if I’m just shining lightpath, if I put light right here on the forehead, you know, only about 4% of light can actually get through the skin, the blood, the the bone into the brain. But once that light hits that very front part of this brain, they see action occurring in real time in the deepest part of the brain. So that’s the fascinating thing with light. So or if I’m putting light right here, that light’s gonna create vasodilation. It’s gonna create angiogenesis, so new capillaries. So light’s gonna be effective here, but it’s also gonna be effective in this entire area. It also can help create gene expression. So we actually have genes talking, communicating, with one another. We also have reactive oxygen species communicating with the mitochondria. So all kinds of things are going on. But, ideally, you wanna be able to get that light to those cells that need it. So if we can have both light getting to the cells that we need and have that systemic effect. We’re just increasing our odds of getting positive outcomes.
Nick Urban [00:21:31]:
Yeah. And another question I’m sure will come up is the difference between using these panels and just, like, being closer to your light bulbs in the house is that if you’re using an LED, it’s pretty much stripped of a lot of the beneficial wavelengths we need to balance with. Like, it has usually really high concentrations of the blue spectrum even if it doesn’t actually look blue even if it looks white or even yellow some reason, I’ve seen the spectrographs of the a lot of common LEDs on the market, and they’re pretty much blue dominant. And then also even if you have, like, the incandescence or the halogens, which are much better light sources, you’re not not necessarily getting enough of the red throughout the day because we’re not getting outside as much or our environment doesn’t allow us to.
Scott Kennedy [00:22:16]:
That’s why people say, you know, stay away from LEDs. Well, they’re talking about the LEDs that you use in your house that are white looking but they have a lot of blue, and that blue can be bad for you in the evening. Blue isn’t bad for you by any means. I mean, Look Outliyr. We see blue skies. We see blue mountains. We see blue water. There’s a reason because there’s so much blue in our atmosphere from the sun. It’s just that in the evening, we want our melatonin to go up, we want our serotonin to go down, but blue light will depress melatonin. So it makes it tougher to sleep. So having a lot of blue light around you, the computer screen, your phone, whatever’s there, that can make sleep more difficult. but blue light in the morning is great because that suppresses the melatonin increases the serotonin. Now I could take I could take a any kind of light, and I could put a red filter on it. So that red filter will block all the other rays and only allow that red to go through. in a technical sense that could be used for, you know, red light therapy. But the amount of energy that’s coming out of that is so minuscule that it probably wouldn’t make the slightest bit of difference health wise.
Nick Urban [00:23:48]:
Very wasteful too. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. Yeah. And, I mean, blue light gets unfairly demonized in the morning and even in the afternoon, if you go out around solar noon, 11 AM, usually to, like, 3 PM. blue is one of the dominant wavelengths, and it’s important for your focus, your concentration for healthy cortisol rhythms. And then, yeah, like you said, it’s mainly in the evening when you want to avoid its overexposure
Scott Kennedy [00:24:14]:
to blue. Yeah. And there’s and there’s a reason why I I put blue in certain panels of mine, so it’s got blue, red, and near infrared. And that’s because You know, I do a lot of work with military vets and a lot of them as well as a lot of the rest of us. We suffer from depression, anxiety, seasonal, effective disorder. And if we can have that blue red, near of her red, first thing in the morning. Just hey. If we could just take the edge off of some of the anxiety that so many people are dealing with. Yeah. I also wish I could find a product just like that that has a tiny bit of
Nick Urban [00:24:57]:
UV in it because it’s in small amounts necessary to sulfate vitamin d and to, like, activate a lot of the biochemical processes that are key to, like, I guess, in normal sun exposure, some of the reason that it’s healthy. But then if you add UVB into the mix, I think it becomes a medical device and that adds a lot more complications.
Scott Kennedy [00:25:16]:
Yeah. I I’ve I’ve had to stay clear of that. I I would totally agree with you. There are certain sad devices that will have UV in it. And as long as you’re being smart and using it and and being wise with it, it’s great for you. But, yes, as a manufacturer, I just had to choose to stay clear of that for all kinds of liability type issues.
Nick Urban [00:25:40]:
Yeah. Okay, Scott. So CHEK I was looking into red light therapy devices originally, I couldn’t understand why someone would want to pulse red lightpath. Because as I saw it, that reduces the total power that you’re receiving, that the irradiance you’re receiving. And then I realized that it might not be quite so simple. And one of the mechanisms that I saw is that when you pulse the light, your body is actually better able to absorb it. I don’t know if that’s true, but why did you decide to pursue pulsation?
Scott Kennedy [00:26:11]:
So Pulse started out with lasers because they wanted to reduce the heat effect. So it had nothing to do with health benefits initially. So if we if we break up, like, if you take a candle and we put our finger over like this, we don’t burn our finger. That’s kind of what the purpose of pulsing was. So it’s called tissue relaxation. So it’s just that split second where that tissue doesn’t have that heat and then it may get that heat again and it’s okay. Well, it’s a lot less than a split second, isn’t it? Well, yeah. Well, it could be with certain lasers, it could be you know, the the laser could be on for literally a 1,000,000 or a billions of a second And then it could be off 99% of the time CHEK we get into, like, super post higher powered lasers. When we talk about, like, LEDs, they can generally be in that range of what we call a duty cycle 30% to 80%. So minor 50% duty cycle mean it’s meaning it’s on half to half the time, and it’s off half the time. So no matter if it’s pulsing one time a second or it’s pulsing, 10,000 times a second, it’s always gonna be on half the time. But, yeah, you’re right because you would think Okay. Well, it’s only on half the time. So I’m not getting a 10 minute session. I’m really only getting 5 minutes. But what they found through the research And they’re still kind of trying to figure out the exact rationale for why it’s working better. They know it works better. the few theories are nitric oxide disassociation, which it just means that nitric oxide wants to hang on to the mitochondria, and it blocks it from work so that light comes and hits it, knocks it off. Well, then it can reattach, though. But with pulsing, it’s constantly doing that. So every time it tries to attach, It’s getting knocked off again. That’s one. Around the cells is the Iwl. It’s a it’s a it’s a water sheath. What they found is Pulse Light makes that water sheet less viscous and allows more micronutrients to the ion channels to come in and feed the mitochondria increasing ATP energy. The 3rd is a resident. So when we talk about brain waves, alpha, gamma, beta, delta. You know, we know that they have a frequency to it. So what they found is light can help mimic that. So say 40 hertz on the forehead is really beneficial, and that’s for the gamma.
Nick Urban [00:29:08]:
Scott Kennedy [00:29:09]:
is really good for alpha. 10 hertz on the stomach is really good for anxiety. So and then there’s there’s a lot of other good research on posting showing increased healing with bone fractures, with with wounds. with depression, anxiety. So there there we know there there’s a lot more research that needs to be done, and they’ve gotta really dive in there and just find those specific numbers that are really beneficial, but it’s not easy to do. It’s not like you can just hook it up to, you know, some meter, and it’ll say, bing bing bing bing bing bing. This is the best one. So a lot of the research is done on animals, on mice where, you know, after the after they they do the light on specific pulses, they’ll euthanize the animal, and then they’ll, you know, they’ll get in there and investigate. Okay. Here’s a gene expression that’s has upticked here. One that’s downtick here is an interleukin that is, you know, increased or something else has decreased so they can really get in there and find, you know, exactly what’s going on, like, at a very
Nick Urban [00:30:30]:
micro cellular level. So does this mean if I program my device to 40 hertz and sit in front of it with my head extra close? I can entrain myself into gamma brainwaves gamma dominant brainwave state more easily.
Scott Kennedy [00:30:45]:
Yeah. So, you know, they’ve got helmets head gear that, you know, they focus light on different areas of the brain. because they know with certain types of people, let’s say, with people that have post traumatic stress disorder. that they’re much higher in certain brain wavelengths and lower than normal and other brain wavelength. So the whole idea of that is brain entrainment so that you can help to try to balance that to make it what what we would consider to be just a more balanced state and reduce some of those some of those depression, anxiety, PTSD, stuff type issues.
Nick Urban [00:31:34]:
Yes. But can I just sit in front of my Lightpath LED Diesel line panel and do that or do I need a special device to really put it Not to get enough power?
Scott Kennedy [00:31:44]:
No. No. You don’t have to worry about the power of it because here’s the thing is, no different than you listen to Binaural Beats. What’s going on? We have sound frequency being transmitted into the ear hitting the hairs, getting pulled into by the neurons. The neurons then changed that to an electrical stimulus that gets transferred into the brain. So we know listening to binaural beats at 40 hertz is very positive for the brain. They’re starting to realize that 40 hertz in the eyes is transferring, you know, visual photons into electrical stimulation. So that’s being transferred to the brain, and then we start to see all the benefits working from that. So, no, you don’t have to get super close to that. You just have to be at that normal, you know, about 12 inches of of distance, and that’s gonna be very, very beneficial. Again, You don’t need to get everything through here because you have your sinuses. You have your eyes. literally, you can have it going up the nose in, like, an intranasal device. You can actually have it going in through the mouth, and it’s going to create all those positive effects for the brain. That’s cool. I wonder if if I applied it, say, to my stomach, because of some of the systemic effects, maybe that’d be too low. Maybe, like, to my CHEK, if that would have some influence on gamma brainwaves. You know, they had recent research where they found, like, 90 percent of the is it the serotonin was was being produced by the stomach area. So you can tell that there’s such a big gut brain connection CHEK so much of what’s going on in here is caused by issues in the guts. So that’s why it was fascinating when they did study on it was between 7 10 hertz pulses per second on the stomach area was reducing anxiety. So I don’t another good study in a scientist can’t think of his name, Australia. He took mice. He he radiated just the head area. And that was after he had given them some some type of a chemical that created a very Parkinson’s like tremor. So he raided just the head area. trembers went down, and then he covered the head area with, like, a tin foil, did just a neck down with light had almost the same positive effects. So it just tells you the importance of the body and how we had to treat it like a system as opposed to just the brain. just a heart, just a stomach, just a lymph node. It all works together.
Nick Urban [00:34:39]:
Yeah. And brain gut access is becoming more popular, and there’s a bunch of other ones. There’s a heart brain access.
Scott Kennedy [00:34:47]:
And I have a feeling they’re gonna discover deep intricate connections between virtually every organ system in the brain. Well, yeah. I mean, when we look at Meridian points, you know, they’ve you know, these are the things that have been practiced for, you know, a few 1000 years, but a lot of scientists said, no. It’s just woo woo whatever. Well, they’ve been able to show by actually putting, you know, specific high power light in one area on a Meridian Point, they can actually, with instruments, read where that light is coming out. So it’s like fiber optics going through the body. So there’s a reason why there’s CHEK with photo by modulation is also this called photo puncture. So instead of acupuncture, we’re doing photopuncture. So we’re doing it with lightpath, with same specific wavelengths, pulsing as well. But in a nice little torte sorry. So we can put on specific areas. So with my wellness center, we would you know, I would be treating people with aches and pains or whatever else. But one thing I noticed CHEK I first started is gosh. These people are so stressed out. They’ve got so much anxiety. So that’s where I delved in and started taking courses on photopuncture. And so every client that came in first thing I would do is I would treat the bladder meridians to help switch them from that stress fight or flight sympathetic to that more calming parasympathetic. So, yeah, exactly what you’re saying. It’s amazing what we can do for the body what to be understand at. Beautiful.
Nick Urban [00:36:22]:
So you mentioned that near infrared is one of the wavelengths within your panels And I know from my own research and experience that there are also infrared saunas and near infrared saunas. So is that the same or similar wavelength that you would find in the near infrared sauna?
Scott Kennedy [00:36:41]:
Yeah. Here’s the issue. Like, so you may it would be called like a full spectrum. And they may have one panel that is, like, your red The problem is it is photo by a modulation. Here’s the issue is. 1, it’s usually in a very difficult place. Like, it’s where your shins are. You know? So it’s not not the shins are a great place to hit for stem cells, any long bone. So, yeah, it’s it’s an yeah. But you’re sweating. It’s hot in there. The the the light is reflecting off of the sweat, so you’re not absorbing nearly enough of it to be effective. So although the idea of a full spectrum sauna is cool. You might as well just stick with the mid and far or just the far infrared wavelengths that create that heat.
Nick Urban [00:37:39]:
So I didn’t realize that that sweat actually will interfere with the absorption of certain spectrum’s of lightpath? Well, yeah, it’ll
Scott Kennedy [00:37:48]:
with because when when we talk about red, near infrared, the wavelengths are much shorter. You know? The longer the wavelengths go all the way to where we get to, like, radio waves, You know, we can you know, those will travel through Matt Winds and through buildings. But, like, Red, near infrared, I can’t have my shirt on and have it’s not gonna penetrate my shirt. If I have lotions on my face, A lot of the light’s not gonna penetrate. It’s just gonna get absorbed or reflected from the lotions. So the same goes with sweat. So the best thing is just to have clean, dry, skin before you do light. So I can do the light, and then I can jump in the sauna. That’s fine. but I don’t wanna do it the other way around. And I don’t wanna do it together.
Nick Urban [00:38:39]:
Gotcha. Okay. So I think one of the more important discussions we’ll have now before we get into, like, the practical use cases and everything and, like, how to best use it is the benefits and the reasons people like, the testimonials you’re hearing. And, of course, this is not any medical claims, but What are you seeing as, like, the main benefits, outcomes, use cases for light therapy, and photobiomodulation?
Scott Kennedy [00:39:05]:
the two ones that I really like that I hear a lot of is it improves mood. And we know that that’s an easy one because people who whether it’s from anxiety, depression, all the way up to Alzheimer’s. and dementia is there’s inflammation in the brain. One of the biggest things that light does is when it increases ATP energy, is it creates an anti inflammatory effect. So that’s part 1, 2 vasodilation. So when we have the glimp, the lymphatics, for the brain. If we create vasodilation, open up those vessels, it helps to drain toxicities from the brain as well. Anything dealing with inflammation is gonna be beneficial, whether it’s acute. So there’s a reason why a lot of professional athletes are using light. So they’re using it to reduce injury lower inflammation in between workouts so they can work out more bioregulators, and they’re doing it for vasodilation. because it actually increases oxygen to their muscles so they can exert themselves harder. And this is all through science that has shown this as well. Another good thing is lightpath balances. So whether you’re hyper or hypo is gonna bring them even. So that could be men that are low in testosterone, men dealing with erectile dysfunction. teenagers dealing with really difficult cramping, women that are dealing with infertility type issues. So much of that is situated around not just hormones, but hormones our our mood as well as our toxicities, these are the things that light has really, really helped people out. And and it could be it could be as simple as helping you manage. You know, I tell people this whether it’s an autoimmune issue or or depression. You know what? We’re not curing things. We just wanna manage. We just wanna wake up in the morning and not be like, oh, here’s my problem. This is the first thing I’m thinking about is this issue that I’m dealing with. And we don’t want it to be the last thing when you put your head on your pillow to be thinking about. So can red light really help inflammatory type issues? Absolutely. It can be a game changer Or it could be just helping us manage to get through the day a little bit easier.
Nick Urban [00:41:57]:
Yeah. I’m surprised that you didn’t mention anything around sleep or energy levels?
Scott Kennedy [00:42:03]:
Yeah. Well, when we talk about mood, let me go back a step. When you don’t have sleep, you’re not gonna be in a good mood. So when I say you’re in a better mood, it’s because it balances their circadian rhythm. It helps to balance the melatonin, the serotonin, helps to balance the dopamine as well. So, certainly, if someone’s not sleeping well so let let’s talk about people who wanna lose weight. There are studies that have showed statistically significant weight loss with light. There’s a big difference between research, statistically significant, and real life when we look in the mirror what is significant. People wanna quick out. That’s not where lightpath gonna happen. So when we talk about weight loss, I talk about okay. How is it gonna help you with weight loss? If it can allow you to exercise and push yourself harder, great. if it allows you to exercise more frequently because of the healing process of, like, the reduction in inflammation, If it helps you to sleep better, your mood is gonna be better. You’re gonna be more likely to not just push yourself, but you’re gonna be in a better mood that’s gonna keep you from craving some of those foods that you know you know you should not be eating if that helps out.
Nick Urban [00:43:36]:
Yeah. I was gonna mention that I saw this from that same research on light therapy and weight loss, and I was certainly a bit skeptical that could actually translate into a noticeable difference even if the results in the study were significant or were statistically significant. Right. And then also one of the big popular use cases for it is around beauty and aesthetics. What do you know about red light therapy and general light therapy on the hair, skin,
Scott Kennedy [00:44:06]:
nails, all that? So when we talk about skin, we’re talking about collagen, fibroblasts. Fibroblasts are an increase when there’s an increase in ATP production. So it’s it’s another one of those things like, okay. Will it help reduce fine lines, wrinkles, Yes. Will it help just to maybe slow the process down? Yes. is it gonna make you look 10 years younger? No. So I don’t market my stuff to say, hey. you know, wrinkles. That’s just not my thing. I I’m I’m more focused on deeper type issues. But, certainly, it can help. So why not? We’re all vain. Let’s be real. hair, absolutely. Not just red and near infrared, but also blue has been shown to help with again, do we necessary will we all like to have a full head of hair? Absolutely. Is that gonna happen for everyone to know? So for a lot of people, it may be just just slow the process down. Maybe halt the process. Yes. Certain people will start to see new hair grow in which is great. But it’s not something that I am going to ever promise to someone. But, yeah, same with same with nails. Healthier, stronger nails is gonna be a factor of increased cellular response, increased ATP production.
Nick Urban [00:45:42]:
And a little below the surface, what about wounds? Do you see anything with injuries and cuts, scrapes, bruises, that kind of stuff healing repairing faster with light? Oh, yeah. Dramatically. Yeah.
Scott Kennedy [00:45:59]:
So, again, we talked about, like, herpetic lesions. We we know that in the dental field, shingles, any kind of cuts or scrapes, burns. Mhmm. I don’t know why they don’t have light in every burn clinic. Bed wounds, we see that a lot of and you know, nursing homes or quadriplegic. I had a friend that I sent a little small torch to his father’s a quadriplegic always deals with bed sore issues, has had a few swords that had been around new literally for 3 to 4 years. that would never heal up within a month of doing post, light, red, and near infrared, they were all almost completely healed within within, literally, I think, a 3, 4 week period time and have not come back since So blue. Blue is antibacterial. It creates excessive reactive oxygen species, which is great to help to kill bacteria or viruses or other types of pathogens. Then you have the red and the near infrared, which increasing ATP production, vasodilation, more oxygen, that’s the key. You get more oxygen to that area,
Nick Urban [00:47:17]:
you’re gonna see a dramatic increase in healing. I’m just thinking all the things you can combine with it, like either peptides or ozone for more oxygenation or nootropics. Like, methylene blue is a big one that people often combine with. red light therapy and photobiomodulation in general, are there any combinations or stacks that you like
Scott Kennedy [00:47:37]:
Bethylene Blue is a big one. That’s something that you can actually put right on the wound itself, or you can ingest it, or you can do it through IV. Methylene Blue is photosensitive to the red lightpath, so it’ll actually penetrate deeper in through the tissue. when when when it’s when when Red Lake is absorbed into it. So when we talk about stacking, I I I like the word Hormesis. Hormesis is acute stressors on the body. So acute stressors can be anything from red lightpath, infrared sauna, cold pledges, exercise, breath work, fasting. I mean, there’s all kinds of things. acute stressors that make our bodies stronger. The simple way that it’s doing it is when we I just brought up reactive oxygen species. We used to think that that was a bad thing. So when we have acute stress, we we release reactive oxygen species. They then signal back to the mitochondria and say, hey, guys. We’re under stress. Get your ass in gear. So mitochondria will then grow bigger. They will populate. They will produce more ATP energy. Hence why, if you’re a couch potato, you’re not gonna get up and run a marathon, but you could probably walk a half mile. And then eventually, you can start to jog a half mile and then a mile and then 5 and then 10. And he eventually worked your way up to a marathon. That’s how the body is reacting to acute stresses. So that’s the same thing. So I tell people as much as you can, try to get a couple of those in a day whether that’s gonna be your light and breath work, your light and sauna, a cold plunge and exercise doing an intermittent fasting and doing breath holding. You know? You’ve gotta combine all these things in to be
Nick Urban [00:49:38]:
really, really optimal with your health. Yeah. And especially, it’s important if you’re adding more Hormatic stressors to get your whole stress bucket, your allostatic load in general because while there’s a lot of, like, benefits to each of those practices. If you’re starving yourself, you’re eating at sporadic times, you’re crushing really long hard workouts, your hormone levels and this total stress you’re under might do more harm than good in those cases. You’re better off skipping some of the really intense stuff getting your stress under control and then waiting until you’re in a better state to add them back in. Yeah. Well, like, if you think of someone with chronic fatigue syndrome, they’re not gonna go out and exercise.
Scott Kennedy [00:50:18]:
But can they get some light? Absolutely. Can they do a sauna? Probably not. but but can they do some breathwork? Absolutely. So you have to start where where where your body is at that time. and then you can build. You know, it’s no different when light. When someone is first starting with light, I don’t say just jump in and do your 15 minutes. I say, start at 2 minutes or start further away because that light can be too much for the body all at once. If your lymphatic system is stagnant and your body is trying to pull toxins out, but it’s got nowhere to go, You’re gonna create a Hurx response. It’s not a bad thing, but you’re gonna have a little headache. You’re gonna feel a little bit, you know, fluid for a day. It’s a good sign. It says your body’s trying, but it needs to just take things a little bit slower. Yeah. The ancient system of ayurveda, which is at least five thousand years old, mentions
Nick Urban [00:51:18]:
sun gazing and to only do it during certain times of the day, the first, like, 15 to 20 minutes when the UVX is 0. But then they also recommended to only start with 15 seconds and to slowly work your way up over time, adding another 15 seconds per day until you wait work your way up to minutes at a time, 10 minutes, But I always wonder, like, this seems ridiculous. It seems ridiculous to start so low and slow, like, just 15 seconds at a time. And this is probably the exact reason why they advocated starting low and slow. Right. Absolutely. Okay. So I am now convinced that I need to do more red light exposure in photobiomodulation In addition to the sunlight, I already get because I get lots of it. But what is the best way to incorporate it into your lifestyle? You mentioned sitting in front of it and if you expose your shins to it more, you’re in gonna increase your stem cell proliferation. What about, like, I guess, for athletes people, like, do I take it before workout, after workout, early in the morning, in the evening? What do you see as the best protocol to implement light therapy?
Scott Kennedy [00:52:25]:
Yeah. It’s a difficult one because it’s everyone is a little bit different. And the last thing I want is for someone to feel like, oh, I have to get it in in the morning. And if I don’t, then there’s no point. You know? So I tell people, do light with your schedule. So, you know, yeah, ideally, if you can get up and do it in the morning because it’s great for your eyes anywhere between, like, 6:9 AM because that’s when the mitochondria is most active. So I like to do mine in the morning. other people like to do it in the evening because it really helps them sleep. Athletes are gonna are gonna do it about 2 hours prior to whatever workout they’re doing. Right? Because that’s how long it takes for that that nitric you gotta anywhere between immediately to about 2 hours is where you have that nitric oxide and that vasodilation release. athletes could do it right after as well to help reduce the inflammation. But once you start once you start doing it daily or four times or five times a week, it doesn’t leave you when you’re done. Light will actually continue to work in your body from anywhere from 48 to 72 hours. Wow. So it’s like an immediate spike, and then it starts to go down, down, down. Okay. Here’s day 2. Here’s another spike. Down down down. Here’s day 3. So it piggybacks on the previous one. So it’s not like you necessarily have to plan out when you’re getting the light because it’s gonna stay in your system and still be effective
Nick Urban [00:54:15]:
Scott Kennedy [00:54:16]:
to 72 hours later. Very interesting.
Nick Urban [00:54:20]:
So how do you go about actually deciding how long to do a session? Like, does it change if you’re pulsing And does it change based on your health status or your activity levels or your sun exposure?
Scott Kennedy [00:54:32]:
It’s it’s kinda like your your vitamin d levels. CHEK can change daily. So, you know, one day, you may technically need more light you know, than another day, or you may need more, you know, vitamin c one day, not so much the next day. So I I try to keep people from being too dogmatic about light. You know, you get to a point where it’s just, yes, let’s start off workflow. Let’s build up to about 15 minutes, about 12 inches away. That’s giving the correct amount of jewels to the cells that we know through studies have a very beneficial effect. Right? So we can stick with that and be completely fine. But I tell people, once you once you start doing it for a while, start to use your intuition. So you could be in front of that light and say you’ve got it set for 15 minutes, and 10 minutes goes by. You’re like, you know what? I’m good. I feel alright. I feel good. You’re good. If you did it for 15 minutes and you’re like, I’m really I’m liking this light. It feels good. I wanna do a few more minutes. Do a few more minutes. It’s gonna be it’s gonna be completely fine with you. Just some people that they they think more is better And and, again, it was it’s like anything else. You’re gonna get into that sign up. More is not gonna be better. There’s a certain aspect where it’s good, and then it starts to become either unhealthy or you lose the benefits. So there is a point where you can get too much light. Good analogy, you got a potted plant. You wanna water that. You don’t wanna just do drip drip drip, but you don’t wanna dump a bucket on it. And you don’t wanna keep on watering it because the soil can only absorb so much water before the rest of it will just run off or it’ll drown it. So the body, the cells, work similar. We wanna saturate the cells,
Nick Urban [00:56:34]:
but we don’t wanna overdo it. Is it necessary for me to rotate when I’m in front of the panel, like, after 5 minutes, 7 a half minutes, whatever it is to flip around?
Scott Kennedy [00:56:43]:
So you you wanna be able to do enough to get correct amount of jewels on the tissue that’s facing that light. So I will do 15 minutes on my front side. Now I could be that that that that could be all I need to do, say, on Monday. And then Tuesday, I may do 15 minutes on my backside and just alternate those. Now if I want to spend 30 minutes in front of the light, I can do 15 minutes on my front side and then turn around and do 15 minutes on my backside. Again, the more we can get the light actually to the cells the better,
Nick Urban [00:57:24]:
and then the systemic effect is just kind of gravy on the top. Are there any more, like, advanced things people can do? I mean, I know that it’s most important just to get your session in and be consistent. Let’s say I wanna mobilize stem cells or increase the production of stem cells, I could apply it to my shins or focus on my shins, put them a little closer. What and, like, if I wanna stimulate gamma brainwaves, I can put it closer to my head. Are there any other places that you see work especially well for different goals? Well, you don’t have to place it closer to anything.
Scott Kennedy [00:57:57]:
You know, again, it’s RED is only gonna penetrate so far regardless of the time and the power because it’s absorbed in the blood. Near infrared is only gonna penetrate so far So I don’t have to overdo that, and the body prefers lower and slower. So instead of having a high powered device into slapping it right on my face and doing it for 30 seconds, that could give me the correct amount of jewels but the body doesn’t like that much power all at once because it’s not natural. We are trying to get a little bit closer to natural. So, yeah, if if the the one good thing with, like, large panels is it takes a lot of the thought out of it. Okay. stripped down, I can get anywhere from my toes up to the top of my head if it’s large enough. Or I just need to move it around. if I had a smaller device, let’s say for I was gonna say for your male listeners, but really for your female listeners as well, Let’s say you had erectile dysfunction. Your first thought is I’m gonna put light on the balls. Great. do that. That’s gonna help increase testosterone. But what if it’s a what if it’s a blood issue? What if we’re not getting enough vasodilation So we need to hit the blood supply to that area. What if it’s a nerve issue? Okay. need to put light on my lower back to all the nerves that innervate the penis. I need to put light on my stomach to reduce my anxiety. I need to put light on my head to help me sleep better, you know, to give me a better mood. So with a large device, again, it takes out a lot of the guesswork. If we had smaller devices, then, yes, we’re gonna be I’m gonna be very specific on where I want you to put that light. Gotcha. Okay.
Nick Urban [00:59:54]:
Well, Scott, we will start to wind down. This is one of those subjects that I’m sure we could chat about for hours. but we got limited time today. So if people are interested in connecting with you in trying some of your posting best in class lightpath panels, how do they go about getting in contact with you? So the website is lightpathled.com.
Scott Kennedy [01:00:19]:
I also have a Facebook group, so you could just search red light therapy for beginners. And that’s a great way for people whether you get you have my light or someone else’s or you’re interested in getting light. That’s a place where you can ask questions. You can get responses either from me or from other people that have been part of the community. So you get their knowledge, what’s helped them out as well. So that’s really a great way to to learn and understand light better without going down that crazy rabbit hole of trying to find research. and you were generous enough to give my audience a special discount.
Nick Urban [01:01:03]:
I think the code is urban. Do you know what that saves them?
Nick Urban [01:01:07]:
It’s gonna save them
Nick Urban [01:01:09]:
Nick Urban [01:01:10]:
and that’ll be for 1 week. Sweet. Thanks for setting that up. I’ll put all this in the show notes with the links to everything we’ve discussed. And now we’ll go into a quick rapid fire round. Are you ready? Okay. Go. What 3 teachers have had the biggest impact on your life and work?
Scott Kennedy [00:01:32]:
Nelson Markina, doctor, and Virginia. really open my eyes to lightpath Aubrey, photopuncture in Arizona. Amazing. Kevin Stanley, 5th grade. He was awesome. Beautiful.
Nick Urban [01:01:52]:
Okay. If someone wants to get started and they don’t have the budget yet for a premium light path LED panel, how can they start implementing light into their lives at home.
Scott Kennedy [01:02:03]:
Yeah. Get what you can afford. Okay? Yes. It’d be nice to get the best in everything. be nice to get the best customer support, all that. But get what you can afford. We do have a pro series that that is more budget friendly. for people who doesn’t have the pulse, it doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, but it gets people started. And that’s the key. Get started.
Nick Urban [01:02:25]:
Okay, Scott. What is one thing the Lightpath LED tribe does not know about you?
Scott Kennedy [01:02:32]:
I don’t think that they know that I also own a campground. Eventually, what I’m gonna do is try to bring my wellness center into the campground so that people can come in and get their light, get their sauna, get their cold plunge, get their yoga, get their meditation, and they can stay with us for a weekend or a week. And we’re surrounded by nothing but cows and corn. So it is about as peaceful of places you could find.
Nick Urban [01:03:04]:
Wow. That sounds like that will be the first of its kind. I think so. Yeah. And I’m a bit envious of you. I’m guessing you get a ton of natural light exposure in addition to your red light by virtue of owning a campground.
Scott Kennedy [01:03:19]:
during the 2 months where it’s warm enough in upstate New York. Yeah. But, yeah, the the rest of the time, it’s cold, It’s gray. It’s dreary. It’s sad. I need to go down south more frequently.
Nick Urban [01:03:34]:
Well, Scott Kennedy. Thanks for joining me today. It’s been fun chatting about light and opening my eyes to some myths and misconceptions I had around it, and how to easily put it into our lifestyles. Absolutely. Thanks so much, Nick, for having me. Until next time, I’m Nick Urban here with Scott Kennedy. signing out from mindbodypeak.com. Have a great week and be an outlier. I hope that this has been helpful for you. If you enjoyed it, subscribe and hit the thumbs up. I love knowing who’s in the 1% committed to reaching their full potential. Comment 1% below so that I know who you are. For all the resources and links, meet me on my website at mindbody Peak dotcom. I appreciate you and look forward to connecting with you
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This Podcast Is Brought to You By
Nick Urban is a Biohacker, Data Scientist, Athlete, Founder of Outliyr, and the Host of the Mind Body Peak Performance Podcast. He is a Certified CHEK Practitioner, a Personal Trainer, and a Performance Health Coach. Nick is driven by curiosity which has led him to study ancient medical systems (Ayurveda, Traditional Chinese Medicine, Hermetic Principles, etc), and modern science.
Music by Luke Hall
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